It's to avoid having to use the EU drivers hours rules, which apply to services over 50km in length. By splitting the registration into four parts, and treating each part as a separate, but connecting, service - it is possible to run using the less restrictive domestic drivers hours rules.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
High Peak Bus Company / Trentbarton Split [Merged Thread]
- Thread starter johnnychips
- Start date
- Status
It's to avoid having to use the EU drivers hours rules, which apply to services over 50km in length. By splitting the registration into four parts, and treating each part as a separate, but connecting, service - it is possible to run using the less restrictive domestic drivers hours rules.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
MCR247
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Nov 2008
- Messages
- 10,292
How come trent barton had no problem with this?
Not sure, but for one thing, crew scheduling is easier with all the drivers working under one set of driving hours rules. Stagecoach Lincolnshire have 'split' all their long distance services in a similar way and it makes no difference as far as the passengers are concerned, the driver just has to remember to change the blind when they reach the 'split' point.
WillPS
Established Member
Grandfather rights, which would have been lost if it became necessary to de-register and then re-register the service.
Not dissimilar to how HSTs can stop at short-platform stops like Langley Mill with no SDO since they've historically served them, but FGW had to fit SDO when they wanted the HSTs to serve places they traditionally hadn't.
So these Omnicities - are they going on Transpeak or not? Derby Bus Depot seems to suggest that they've been repainted in to the Transpeak livery (still with Trent's branding - lazy!) but they are in fact not going to be used on Transpeak?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Is there any chance that someone can find out exactly what these Scania OmniCities will actually be used upon.
tbone
Member
My understanding was that the two omnicities, the one that has been used on transpeak for a while (in a white livery) and the one that is now running in transpeak livery, will be used, alongside the decker and three Solars from elsewhere in the Centrebus fleet (08 plates) that will be displaced by the former NCT skylink omnicities. I believe the PVR of transpeak is 7, I'm not sure where the other bus will come from.
Re the continued use of the livery, it is recognised by customers and the 'bow' no longer features, it's in a modern style (so much so that Wardle ripped it off) and Trent Barton are changing their style aswell, so soon it will be unique on transpeak and X50.
omnibologist
Member
High Peak are using 2 Omnicitys on Transpeak,
788 has been repainted and is "Transpeak" branded similar to the Trent Barton style for continuity and easy recognition, 789 is to go for repaint soon. Meanwhile 704 is being repainted at present with(apparently) 748 to follow, these are Wright "Solar" bodied Scanias
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The "Transpeak" livery style was used on 118 "Buxton Flyer" long before Arriva(Wardles) took over, the same style was adopted by Huddersfield bus company and 2 vehicles from the same batch which went to Bowers for the 61 Buxton-Glossop service which caused a lot of problems when(occasionally) all 3 could be seen on Buxton Market Place at the same ime.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
TrentBarton did have problems with scheduling under the old system with drivers having to have long breaks, sometimes of 3 hours and more, to fit in with schedules and drivers hours, which is what caused the financial squeeze that brought about "High Peak"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A few Excels are to be retained, and possibly another decker to ease capacity problems on mid morning Buxton bound services from Derby.
One of the Excels (ex Trent 225) is being cannibalised at Dove Holes.
Are there now any day tickets that can be used on the whole of Transpeak (ideally with some other validity on High Peak/Trentbarton)? I used to enjoy going along it in sections and dropping off at points on the way.
I have had a look but all the ones I've found exclude at least part of the route.
I have had a look but all the ones I've found exclude at least part of the route.
tbone
Member
225 has now sadly gone for scrap, it was bought by Trent Barton as an ex. demo bus and is believed to have been the first ever Excel Mk. 2
WillPS
Established Member
Amazing that buses so young are hitting the scrapheap now.
When I was really in to buses about 13 years ago, NCT were thought to be modern for getting rid of their massive Atlantean fleet (20 years old by that point) - and then none of them went for scrap!
tbone
Member
225 was said to be particularly unreliable in its later days, and sadly the excels don't seem to last, Trent have just withdrawn Excels 240 and 256 due to corrosion damage
Polarbear
Established Member
Nothing that covers the whole route as far as I'm aware;
- A Peak Wayfafer will be valid between Manchester & Matlock
- A Derbyshire Wayfarer will be valid from Derby up to New Mills
- The "Peak Plus" ticket, in conjunction with a Trent-Barton "Zig Zag" would get you most of the way to Manchester from Derby
omnibologist
Member
as mentioned above, 225 was particularly unreliable and has now suffered major mechanical failure combined with being a non-standard one off, its neither Mk1 or Mk2, has made it uneconomical to resurrect, though never say never, it is being robbed to keep the others going. Also Centrebus only have a few Excels making them non-standard on the fleet.
johnnychips
Established Member
From 18th November the Transpeak service will be curtailed at Derby and not run on to Nottingham.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Will that be of help to the operation of this route ?
martinsh
Established Member
no but it will help Trent Barton finances if they can claim separately for journeys by pensioners Nottm - Derby and Derby - peak district
johnnychips
Established Member
That's an interesting theory. Do pensioners on TP - or anywhere for that matter (I've got 8 years left to go) - have to state where they are going, and the bus company charge the council the amount, or is it a flat rate?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
The holders of the English Over 60 NTCP should be available to travel anywhere on this service as their pass is valid for any bus journey on this route.
WillPS
Established Member
That doesn't really answer the question though.
When Bellamy's ran the Routemaster service to Arnold the conductor would always ask (and write down) where we were getting off when I travelled with my Nana.
I could be wrong but I thought that bus companies could claim half the standard single fare for such a journey?
There must be some incentive to doing it, otherwise why did that service from Nottingham to Skegness exist?
It varies by council as to how it works (which is why in some areas tickets are issued and in some they aren't).
Many pay a fraction of an average bus fare for a route or operator (which is a factor in some bus companies fares where singles are pricey and day tickets quite reasonable as the single fares are usually used for these calculations).
In some areas the rebate is a faction of the actual fare.
I'd imagine TP is a complicated one given how many council areas it goes through.
I doubt many people without the national pass would catch TP just between Nottingham and Derby since they no longer accept TB tickets and there's an express every 10 minutes which does.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
A rather archaic method is used by Clowes Coaches on the 108 service from Macclesfield to Ashbourne, via Leek, in that no tickets are issued and everyone irrespective of age is asked for their journey details, which are then individually logged in ball-point pen on a feint-ruled pad by hand by the driver.
Does anyone else know of any other similar occurrences of this method in 2012 ?
martinsh
Established Member
Cripes - that's only one step up from using an abacus !
Returning to the TP question, I would say that whatever method of reimbursement is employed, it is likely that taking 2 journeys to cover a certain distance will get more reimbursement that doing it one journey.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Day 2 of timetable changes on the 27 timetable and a lot of passengers seem to be fed up.
Criticisms include:
* Poorly advertised timetable changes - local paper mentioned reduced frequency. New timetable available online but no printed timetables about - a lot of the passengers being the older generation may not have Internet access.
* As well as frequency reduction, there is also a capacity reduction as the route is now operated by a Solo. The more frequent was operated by Wright Cadet buses which had a small number of standees at peak times.
* The gap in timetables. People studying at Macclesfield college may not make the 16:00 bus and the next one is 17:45. While someone working in Knutsford who finishes at 5 now has to wait until 18:40 for a bus home!
* The new timetable not working, with some buses unable to run on time due to earlier journeys taking longer than scheduled, while other journeys taking 10 minutes less than timetabled.
The timings of Knutsford-Macclesfield via Stockport on the train are fairly competitive with the bus, although the train fare is more than double the bus fare.
Incidentally, does anyone know where the Wright Cadet buses are now being used? Unless they've been repainted they say 'Cheshire Connect operated by Centrebus' opposed to 'Cheshire Connect operated by Bowers' which was put on the other Cheshire Connect buses which Bowers had.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So do return and day tickets not exist on that route?
Criticisms include:
* Poorly advertised timetable changes - local paper mentioned reduced frequency. New timetable available online but no printed timetables about - a lot of the passengers being the older generation may not have Internet access.
* As well as frequency reduction, there is also a capacity reduction as the route is now operated by a Solo. The more frequent was operated by Wright Cadet buses which had a small number of standees at peak times.
* The gap in timetables. People studying at Macclesfield college may not make the 16:00 bus and the next one is 17:45. While someone working in Knutsford who finishes at 5 now has to wait until 18:40 for a bus home!
* The new timetable not working, with some buses unable to run on time due to earlier journeys taking longer than scheduled, while other journeys taking 10 minutes less than timetabled.
The timings of Knutsford-Macclesfield via Stockport on the train are fairly competitive with the bus, although the train fare is more than double the bus fare.
Incidentally, does anyone know where the Wright Cadet buses are now being used? Unless they've been repainted they say 'Cheshire Connect operated by Centrebus' opposed to 'Cheshire Connect operated by Bowers' which was put on the other Cheshire Connect buses which Bowers had.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So do return and day tickets not exist on that route?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
As I said in my earlier posting, up to the time of my last journey on the 108 service from Macclesfield to Ashbourne run by Clowes Coaches, the word "ticket" was unheard of. Just the trusty ball-point pen and ruled pad for the driver to jot down details of each passenger.
Every journey that I have made on this route, prior to my medical affliction this year, was made in a re-painted ex-Arriva vehicle of some vintage, which urgently needed re-painting again.
Has anyone any new information as to whether or not Clowes Coaches have made any changes to the procedure described above ?
johnnychips
Established Member
This saga really made me laugh Paul. I remember being parked in Mayfield last year trying to track a D of E group when I saw an ice-cream van pass. Actually on a second glance this was service 108. Rich colour in an increasingly drab uniform world.
I can remember being astounded in 1977 (ok off-topic, but right area of the country) on catching a Hulley's bus for the first time. The driver had a machine where he physically wrote the fare with a ball-point; underneath was a carbon paper and another piece of paper. He twirled a handle. I got the top copy, and the carbon copy went into a box, where presumably the clerk extracted them and tallied the tickets and cash at the end of the shift.
In 1986, we had a school group of ten kids staying at Hartington YH, and took them by the market-day only coach on a Wednesday to go swimming at Leek baths. It would be the 456 bus, but I can't remember the operator. At Butterton, a conductress got on and issued us with tickets in 'old pence'. Although we twelve staff/students were filling up the back of the coach, it was still full, picking up from all over the place in remote locations. Obviously this was a day out for shopping and a social occasion.
I can remember being astounded in 1977 (ok off-topic, but right area of the country) on catching a Hulley's bus for the first time. The driver had a machine where he physically wrote the fare with a ball-point; underneath was a carbon paper and another piece of paper. He twirled a handle. I got the top copy, and the carbon copy went into a box, where presumably the clerk extracted them and tallied the tickets and cash at the end of the shift.
In 1986, we had a school group of ten kids staying at Hartington YH, and took them by the market-day only coach on a Wednesday to go swimming at Leek baths. It would be the 456 bus, but I can't remember the operator. At Butterton, a conductress got on and issued us with tickets in 'old pence'. Although we twelve staff/students were filling up the back of the coach, it was still full, picking up from all over the place in remote locations. Obviously this was a day out for shopping and a social occasion.
Last edited:
northwichcat
Veteran Member
To add further confusion to the 27 route, new times have been put on the High Peak website which are different to both timetables shown on the Cheshire East website.
Tomonthetrain
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 1,290
Paul Sidorczuk:1226674 said:
Don't help not accepting Kangaroo tickets
WillPS
Established Member
Why would anybody use Transpeak for a City zone journey. I assume Broadmarsh - QMC is the only journey possible and there's about a billion other options to do that with than the sub-hourly Transpeak!
I suspect that's less relevant than it not accepting TrentBarton tickets (Zig Zag/Mango/Saver etc).
- Status