East Cost Franchise Retender

[philjo]

Huntingdon's one that springs to mind. They're very unlikely to add extra stops up north as I doubt it would add much marginal ORCATS revenue anyway.

In GNER days I seem to remember they called one or two a day at Hatfield - can anybody confirm or deny this?

I don't recall any ever stopping at Hatfield.
In the Deltic days before the new Stevenage station was established and it was still diesel north of Hitchin some services called at WGC, Hitchin and Biggleswade - I remember one day when we went to Hatfield we let the Cambridge train leave & caught a shiny (almost brand new) 313 from Hatfield to WGC then catching the Deltic (I think it was going to Newcastle) to Hitchin where we caught the same Cambridge train we had let go at Hatfield. They were only stating to introduce the 312s on the newly electrified section to Royston at that time.


I think basically more need to call at Stevenage and some stoppers could call at Huntingdon as it is a major population area and is immediately next to the A14 so is much easier to drive to than Peterborough.
The slow lines from Woolmer Green - Peterborough need upgrading to allow 100mph as this would allow the FCC services to use the slow lines without affecting the speed of the train clearing the fast lines for more 125mph services.

 

[Zoe]

I think basically more need to call at Stevenage and some could call at Huntingdon as it is a major population area and is immediately next to the A14.

You have to balance this though against the need for fast journey times between the major destinations on the ECML. I'm not sure extended journey times to Leeds or Newcastle is going to be popular and I doubt calling Edinburgh trains at these stations would even been considered.

 

[philjo]

I was meaning the York/Newark stoppers for Huntingdon. Leeds services sometimes call there at times of disruption when FCC have to run a reduced service (e.g. if everything does round the Hertford loop)

We have extended journey times now as the Newcastle/Edinburgh trains no longer call at Stevenage - it takes up to an hour longer to get from Stevenage to Newcastle now than it did before the timetable changed last year. (the 07:19 Glasgow train from SVG was particularly fast enabling a lot of connections no longer possible)

 

[cle]

You could have stations just outside of the terminus on other lines also, for example a major interchange could be built at Willesden Junction on the WCML.

Neither Finsbury Park nor Willesden Junction connect to Canary Wharf - in the way that Stratford does (and crucially, Liverpool St doesn't!) - so it's unnecessary.

 

[Zoe]

Neither Finsbury Park nor Willesden Junction connect to Canary Wharf - in the way that Stratford does (and crucially, Liverpool St doesn't!) - so it's unnecessary.

Is Canary Wharf a more important destination than the city which would have a direct link from Finsbury Park?
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We have extended journey times now as the Newcastle/Edinburgh trains no longer call at Stevenage - it takes up to an hour longer to get from Stevenage to Newcastle now than it did before the timetable changed last year. (the 07:19 Glasgow train from SVG was particularly fast enabling a lot of connections no longer possible)

It also now takes longer to get from Nuneaton to Liverpool but neither Stevenage or Nuneaton are major destinations on their lines.

 

[stut]

The City is arguably a less important destination than Canary Wharf these days. However, Finsbury Park is a great timesaver for those heading in that direction, not least as it lets you avoid the unnecessarily long walks at Kings Cross.

The problem is that the Moorgate branch is pretty much saturated at rush hours, with no easy way of expanding.

It may not be commonplace to stop at a connection point in the capit in the UK, but it is elsewhere - even the mega-fast Shinkansens all stop at Ueno going north, or Shinagawa going west.
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It also now takes longer to get from Nuneaton to Liverpool but neither Stevenage or Nuneaton are major destinations on their lines.

Why think in terms of destinations, and not connections? Stevenage isn't a big town, but it's a pretty big transport hub. Peterborough even more so.

 

[tbtc]

Why? Kings Cross is only 5 to 7 minutes away and has more National Rail and LUL connections available to passengers.

None of the other Inter City operations that terminate/start at London also call at a station barely a few minutes away so why should the ECML be any different?

Just because providing a better connection to "the city" would might help attract an affluent demographic that would pay a few quid. Plus you'd take pressure of the north eastern "corner" of the Circle Line (though this may be less of an issue when Crossrail takes some of the Paddington - Liverpool Street passengers, freeing up space on Circle trains).

Irrelevant anyhow; as stut says, the Moorgate branch really has more than enough commuters at the moment without cramming more that way.

 

[jon0844]

When the new platforms are up and running, I could see some morning services potentially stopping at FPK for those continuing on via Moorgate - or for a far quicker interchange with the Piccadilly/Victoria Lines (including taking the tube or overland train to Highbury & Islington for LO).

I wouldn't imagine the need for very many, certainly not during the day (ironically, when being quieter would make it easier to do).

Until the lifts come in, changing platforms at FPK might not be suitable for those with luggage (nor those going down to the tube, even if it's a lot quicker than the walk at KGX) and then there's the hassle of people getting up on the train to alight at FPK when people are also getting ready to alight at KGX. People seem to get their things ready far too early, so there would be a clash of people in the aisles packing up with those wanting to get off.

So, having thought for a few minutes (hopefully EC and others would spend a few minutes more!) I think it probably isn't worth it. That's even before considering how busy some Moorgate trains can be in the morning peak - or how it might work the other way around in the evening.

 

[Deerfold]

Until the lifts come in, changing platforms at FPK might not be suitable for those with luggage (nor those going down to the tube, even if it's a lot quicker than the walk at KGX) and then there's the hassle of people getting up on the train to alight at FPK when people are also getting ready to alight at KGX. People seem to get their things ready far too early, so there would be a clash of people in the aisles packing up with those wanting to get off.

At the moment the stop at KGX is typically announced a couple of minutes before we rush through Finsbury Park.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Well the government east coast company will cease next year

Will any new east coast company franchisee honour the East Coast Rewards scheme and the free travel which goes with it ?

 

[HST Power]

Well currently there are three trains per hour between Alexandra Palace and Hertford North, with one of these continuing north to Stevenage/Letchworth Garden City........

You made some good points, but what would be the purpose of sending EC services to Hertford North? The aim of East Coast (as I understood it) was to introduce trains to get to straight into London as quickly as possible, not the 'suburbs' in between. I remember seeing one of their adverts that said exactly that! They already stop at Stevenage, from where it is nothing more than four or five stops on a 317. Other than to tackle the traffic problem on the ECML, I don't see the point.

Will any new east coast company franchisee honour the East Coast Rewards scheme and the free travel which goes with it ?

They'd better!

 

[HSTEd]

You made some good points, but what would be the purpose of sending EC services to Hertford North? The aim of East Coast (as I understood it) was to introduce trains to get to straight into London as quickly as possible, not the 'suburbs' in between. I remember seeing one of their adverts that said exactly that! They already stop at Stevenage, from where it is nothing more than four or five stops on a 317. Other than to tackle the traffic problem on the ECML, I don't see the point.



They'd better!

I use Hertford North as that is where the Suburban train can get out of the way of an Intercity train is rapidly catching up with it, the lack of any passing loops further south means that this is the first opportunity for overtaking and thus is the limiting factor on squeezing in more trains.

 

[Failed Unit]

Well the government east coast company will cease next year

Will any new east coast company franchisee honour the East Coast Rewards scheme and the free travel which goes with it ?

You would hope at the very least they would give a reasonable time to let you use what you had earned. But I expect they will be free to make thier own just as national express did, and east coast afterwards. You will get many who still miss GNER time.

 

[shinkansen1966]

You would hope at the very least they would give a reasonable time to let you use what you had earned. But I expect they will be free to make thier own just as national express did, and east coast afterwards. You will get many who still miss GNER time.

On that basis, let's assume that the very day the new franchisee takes over, they'll scrap all East Coast Reward points. So you'll have to use any EC reward free trips before the new company takes over.

Do we have a timescale for the East Coast re-tendering ?

 

[David10]

Even though legally they won't have to accept them, imagine as a gesture of goodwill there will be a short window, 3 months or so, in which EC points must be used. East Coast is to be let in December 2013 so process will likely start early in the new year.

 

[jon0844]

At the moment the stop at KGX is typically announced a couple of minutes before we rush through Finsbury Park.

Perhaps, but in my experience of a long Intercity service arriving at its final destination, many people start to get ready WAY too early.

Okay, so some people might be in a mad panic to get off the train and rush to a meeting - but many others simply seem to think they've got to alight in a few seconds, or the doors will close and they'll be taken back to where they came from!!

 

[Bridge189]

On that basis, let's assume that the very day the new franchisee takes over, they'll scrap all East Coast Reward points. So you'll have to use any EC reward free trips before the new company takes over.

Do we have a timescale for the East Coast re-tendering ?

It may not be scrapped and I doubt it would be in the best interest of the new company bearing in mid all of the upheaval that's happened with the ECML over the past few years. I've got a feeling change will be minimal when the new operator takes over apart from some new branding.

 

[YorkshireRider]

There is no reason to think a new company will bin the rewards scheme, given the percentage cut a company gets for selling other TOCs tickets on their website the scheme may well run at a profit.