Trivia: Stations that don't sound like they're Spelt

[Gwenllian2001]

And as I said, AFAIK Rhyd Ddu isn't pronounced how it is spelt even in welsh!

Yes it is!
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Not as simple as that! It all depends what part of Wales you're from.

I pronounce the beer company Felinfoel as Velin-voil.

My father in law from Swansea pronounces it Velin-vorl.

There are even different words/dialects in different parts of Wales; hence the two counting systems (dau/dwy, tre/tair etc)

As for Shrewsbury, I pronounce it like the animal.

Of course there are regional differences in accent, just as in any other country, and it would be surprising if it were not so. Compare Geordie with Yorkshire; throw in some Brummie; add a dash of Devonian and a stranger would be hard pressed to realise that they were speaking the same language at all. It is nowhere near as varied in Wales and, of course, words are spelt phonetically which shows you the 'correct' pronounciation. In parts of Glamorgan and Gwent the 'oe' is often voiced as 'o' e.g. Pencoed (pencoyd) which comes out as Pencode. It is merely local usage and would never be spelt like that.

You're way up a gum tree when it comes to counting. Welsh, like French and many other languages, uses gender and what you have quoted are the masculine and feminine forms. You may also be confused by the mutations which often indicate gender but you should still be able to pronounce them as long as you know the alphabet.

I have stated this before but, for anyone who has not read the whole thread, I will repeat it. Welsh is not meant to be read as English because it is not English. It uses a different alphabet, just as does French and German and Spanish etc. etc. You wouldn't attempt to pronounce German as English and neither should you. It seems to be a characteristic of monoglot English speakers that they expect the rest of the world to comply with them.

There are plenty of websites which explain, simply, how to pronounce Welsh. It is not difficult but, I repeat, it is not English.

 

[Scotrail84]

Leuchars and Kirkcaldy catch people out. Have been asked if my train stops at burnt-is-land before. That will be Burntisland then.

 

[Ivo]

I have stated this before but, for anyone who has not read the whole thread, I will repeat it. Welsh is not meant to be read as English because it is not English. It uses a different alphabet, just as does French and German and Spanish etc. etc. You wouldn't attempt to pronounce German as English and neither should you. It seems to be a characteristic of monoglot English speakers that they expect the rest of the world to comply with them.

There are plenty of websites which explain, simply, how to pronounce Welsh. It is not difficult but, I repeat, it is not English.

Isn't that just stereotypical of the English way though?

"I don't need to learn French/German/Spanish/Mandarin/whatever, because they all learn English anyway."

 

[D6975]

Bearing in mind the Welsh references, I hestitated before adding this one.

Belfast is pronounced by locals with the stress on the last syllable, just as Georgies put the stress on the end of Newcastle.
Some also add a slight hint of an 'r' as well 'bell-FA(R)SST'

 

[stut]

Bearing in mind the Welsh references, I hestitated before adding this one.

Belfast is pronounced by locals with the stress on the last syllable, just as Georgies put the stress on the end of Newcastle.
Some also add a slight hint of an 'r' as well 'bell-FA(R)SST'

I think you missed some syllables there. Isn't the place normally pronounced "bell-FAST-so-it-is"?

 

[Michael.Y]

You're way up a gum tree when it comes to counting. Welsh, like French and many other languages, uses gender and what you have quoted are the masculine and feminine forms. You may also be confused by the mutations which often indicate gender but you should still be able to pronounce them as long as you know the alphabet.

I was always taught when I learned Welsh in school that down south we tend to use the decimal system (un-deg-un as opposed to un-ar-ddeg) whereas up north they use the vegisimal system. Maybe my teacher was trying to keep it simple for me. Having said that, when I served IWJ a few weeks back and quoted the price for his two coffis as tri punt pedwar deg ceiniog in my broken Cymraeg, he had no problem understanding me. I understand that the vegisimal system is used for time, but apart from that, it's easier for my English-thinking brain to use the decimal system.

As an aside, I have learnt and become more comfortable in using Welsh much more in the past 8 months as a trolley steward than I ever did in any of my other jobs.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

I was always taught when I learned Welsh in school that down south we tend to use the decimal system (un-deg-un as opposed to un-ar-ddeg) whereas up north they use the vegisimal system. Maybe my teacher was trying to keep it simple for me. Having said that, when I served IWJ a few weeks back and quoted the price for his two coffis as tri punt pedwar deg ceiniog in my broken Cymraeg, he had no problem understanding me.

The vegisimal system was standard throughout Wales when I was in school, which is a very long time ago. The decimal system became more popular after the decimalisation of the currency and, of course, metric being adopted by the education establishment rather than the Imperial Measures which I had to learn. We learnt Metric at Grammar School but that was for scientific reasons.

It is rare to hear anyone younger than the early forties use Vegisimal these days, unless you're in France, of all places.

When did you last hear somebody to state 'I'm four score years and three'?

The decimal system is a convenient form of spoken 'shorthand' and easier to grasp for young minds.

I use both sytems, depending on the age of the person I'm speaking to, in English or Welsh, particularly when it comes to telling the time. I will always say 'five and twenty past two', for example.

Languages do not stand still and continue to evolve but the spelling, in Welsh, is constant. My favourite modern term, in Welsh, is 'popty ping' which means microwave oven. It's obvious and homely.

 

[Michael.Y]

Languages do not stand still and continue to evolve but the spelling, in Welsh, is constant. My favourite modern term, in Welsh, is 'popty ping' which means microwave oven. It's obvious and homely.

Indeed; although I do cringe at things like tacsi, ambiwlans, teleffon, bws, tren and jiraffe.

Getting back on topic - by rights, Pontypool (anglicised spelling of Pont-y-pwl) should be pronounced Pont-err-pool.

 

[transmanche]

My favourite modern term, in Welsh, is 'popty ping' which means microwave oven. It's obvious and homely.

Mine too! 'Popty' being oven, 'popty ping' is a lovely term.

It does sadden me though that so many other modern Welsh words are simple transliterations; e.g. 'batri', 'lifft' or 'ambiwlans'...

 

[LE Greys]

Mine too! 'Popty' being oven, 'popty ping' is a lovely term.

It does sadden me though that so many other modern Welsh words are simple transliterations; e.g. 'batri', 'lifft' or 'ambiwlans'...

No worse than words like 'portmanteau' or 'schadenfreude' getting into English, loanwords are very common in all languages.
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Leuchars and Kirkcaldy catch people out. Have been asked if my train stops at burnt-is-land before. That will be Burntisland then.

Someone has to make the Pen Island joke here...

 

[PFX]

Bearing in mind the Welsh references, I hestitated before adding this one.

Belfast is pronounced by locals with the stress on the last syllable, just as Georgies put the stress on the end of Newcastle.
Some also add a slight hint of an 'r' as well 'bell-FA(R)SST'

You should have hesitated a bit more.

Belfast is certainly not pronounced with the emphasis on 'fast' by locals. The way we say Belfast over here has slight emphasis on 'Bel'.

As for the 'r', this comes from the Irish, Béal Feirste and many, including myself, would actually use this from time to time.

Apologies for my digression from the topic.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Mine too! 'Popty' being oven, 'popty ping' is a lovely term.

It does sadden me though that so many other modern Welsh words are simple transliterations; e.g. 'batri', 'lifft' or 'ambiwlans'...

I know what you mean but, of course, Ambulance is French and the Welsh version is simply a phonetic rendering. Languages do not always keep up with technology and borrowings are commonplace. Just look at all the French terminology adopted and used by the aviation industry in English. On the other hand there are often perfectly acceptable Welsh words which are ignored in favour of adoptions. I'm sure that this applies to all languages, not least English.

 

[transmanche]

No worse than words like 'portmanteau' or 'schadenfreude' getting into English, loanwords are very common in all languages.

True, although the examples you gave are direct loanwords (where the original spelling is used) describing complex concepts or things - other ones that spring to mind are sombrero, wildebeest, wanderlust. Wheraas the Welsh examples I gave are simple transliterations of everyday objects.

I'm trying to think of words that have been transliterated into English - and all I can think of are poppy cock and coleslaw - although I'm sure there are other Dutch transliterations in English.

 

[LE Greys]

True, although the examples you gave are direct loanwords (where the original spelling is used) describing complex concepts or things - other ones that spring to mind are sombrero, wildebeest, wanderlust. Wheraas the Welsh examples I gave are simple transliterations of everyday objects.

I'm trying to think of words that have been transliterated into English - and all I can think of are poppy cock and coleslaw - although I'm sure there are other Dutch transliterations in English.

I always thought a portmanteau was a kind of big suitcase. Garage would be an interesting one, where the pronunciation ('gararge' to 'garridge') has changed in some places, but the spelling has not.

 

[transmanche]

I know what you mean but, of course, Ambulance is French and the Welsh version is simply a phonetic rendering.

True. But I think something like wagen y cleifion (my Welsh is very poor, so that might not make sense!) would be nicer. Although wagen comes from Dutch anyway...

 

[Gwenllian2001]

True. But I think something like wagen y cleifion (my Welsh is very poor, so that might not make sense!) would be nicer. Although wagen comes from Dutch anyway...

How about Cerbyd Argyfwng? Literally = Emergency Vehicle.

 

[bailey65]

I have got nothing against welsh some of my family line go back to wales and i like the country.
I do however like the english language it is so universal and the language of shakespeare there is nothing like travelling thousands of miles to places like australia,new zealand,the usa and canada and hearing your own language.
I still think gaelic and welsh language should be rigourously promoted though as they are part of the historic fabric of the uk pre dating english.

 

[6Gman]

I have got nothing against welsh some of my family line go back to wales and i like the country.
I do however like the english language it is so universal and the language of shakespeare there is nothing like travelling thousands of miles to places like australia,new zealand,the usa and canada and hearing your own language.
I still think gaelic and welsh language should be rigourously promoted though as they are part of the historic fabric of the uk pre dating english.

You'd be amazed how often you come across people speaking Welsh too !

 

[Michael.Y]

Famous Welsh people include Rolf Harris, Kylie Minogue, Thomas Jefferson, Bob Hope and Hillary Clinton.

 

[PFX]

Famous Welsh people include Rolf Harris, Kylie Minogue, Thomas Jefferson, Bob Hope and Hillary Clinton.

Not strictly true. They're all of Welsh decent though I suppose they could all play for a Famous Five Welsh national side... hehe.

 

[Howardh]

(Now a metro rather than main-line station)

You'd think you couldn't go much wrong with Bury.

 

[PR1Berske]

Microwave is not popty ping in Welsh, that's an urban myth

 

[Seacook]

Microwave is not popty ping in Welsh, that's an urban myth

Why would the Welsh for 'urban myth' be 'popty ping'?

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Microwave is not popty ping in Welsh, that's an urban myth

It is not a myth, urban or otherwise, it is in widespread use. The 'official' title for Microwave Oven is 'Meicrodon' but is rarely used. 'Hoover' is a similar unofficial title, in English, for a vacuum cleaner of whatever make. I don't know what people in England call an ATM but hereabouts it is, invariably, referred to as 'twll yn y wal', in Welsh or 'the hole in the wall' in English. There are many other examples in both languages, think 'biro', which are equally valid and understood in everyday speech.

 

[LE Greys]

It is not a myth, urban or otherwise, it is in widespread use. The 'official' title for Microwave Oven is 'Meicrodon' but is rarely used. 'Hoover' is a similar unofficial title, in English, for a vacuum cleaner of whatever make. I don't know what people in England call an ATM but hereabouts it is, invariably, referred to as 'twll yn y wal', in Welsh or 'the hole in the wall' in English. There are many other examples in both languages, think 'biro', which are equally valid and understood in everyday speech.

'Cash machine' or 'cashpoint' usually, which I think is a generalised trademark (as is 'hoover').

 

[IanXC]

'Cash machine' or 'cashpoint' usually, which I think is a generalised trademark (as is 'hoover').

"Cashpoint" is trademark Lloyds TSB

Barclays rebranded their ATM's as "hole in the wall"

 

[Michael.Y]

My first visit to the newly opened station in West Wales today.

Goodwick. Not like pickwick, like I thought, but with a silent w. Good-ick.

 

[Eagle]

Goodwick. Not like pickwick, like I thought, but with a silent w. Good-ick.

Like Flitwick, not Gatwick :P

To be fair, the Welsh name Wdig does give you a bit of a clue.

 

[Eagle]

Penychain, properly stressed on the y (unlike such names as Penybont, Penyfan, Penybryn, Penycrug and so on). Because it's not Pen-y-chain, it's Pen Ychain.

Don't know what "ychain" means; when I Google it all I get is things about the place itself (or misspelt links to some pornographic image board... you've been warned).

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Penychain, properly stressed on the y (unlike such names as Penybont, Penyfan, Penybryn, Penycrug and so on). Because it's not Pen-y-chain, it's Pen Ychain.

Don't know what "ychain" means; when I Google it all I get is things about the place itself (or misspelt links to some pornographic image board... you've been warned).

It means ox.