Not so Greater Anglia

[Broadside]

In any event....the curse of the Margeretting signal failue strikes again......what a debacle this morning!

VERY poorly handled by Not So Greater Anglia
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


OH NO THEY DONT!!!!!!!!!!!! Complete shambles!

According to NR the incident at Ingatestone was due to equipment failure causing signal L730 to stick red. Signallers had to talk each train past the affected area.
GA and NR apparently made the decision to run as many trains as possible through the affected area rather than terminate short and leave people stranded, arriving into London on delayed trains rather than chuck them off at Chelmsford.
I fail to see how this is GA's fault.
What would you have done?

PS: I was on one of said trains.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

In view of some general positive comments about Greater Anglia - could not this thread be renamed (avoiding the over done comments on some 317's being got rid of)

Credit etc - where it is due ?

 

[SprinterMan]

In view of some general positive comments about Greater Anglia - could not this thread be renamed (avoiding the over done comments on some 317's being got rid of)

Credit etc - where it is due ?

Yeah, aside from the (hateful) class 317/7s being withdrawn, GA have done such a brilliant job. Can we change the title to the "Greater Anglia Discussion Thread" or something like that please mods.

 

[essex_commuter]

Must say on the whole I have been really impressed with GA so far. Communication is much better and there do seem to be fewer delays.

Tonight wasn't a good night though with the problems at Ilford, and no-one really seemed to know what was going on. Was told there was a signal failure, operating incident and a trespasser. What exactly was going on?

 

[15MPHMAX]

Anyone know what happened tonight at Ilford to wreck the peak?

 

[Bald Rick]

Cat A SPAD by 1750 LST - NRW

 

[15MPHMAX]

Cat A SPAD by 1750 LST - NRW

Thought as much, cheers.

 

[Class315]

Veering of topic just a tad, Can anyone answer or tell me why West Anglia trains now depart from platform 11 at Stratford and not Platform 12. I've noticed the change over the last few months and just wanted to know if their was any explanation! - Sorry if this has been asked before!

 

[SprinterMan]

http://headcodes.info/tractionHistory.php?sd=120523

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/anglia-gen/message/128438?l=1

Shortage of stock today caused by a DVT fault apparently, as 317505 and 317656 worked the 0625/1130/1630 London to Norwich and the 0900/1400 return. Did they also work the 1900 Norwich - Liverpool Street?

Adam

 

[Central Trains]

http://headcodes.info/tractionhistory.php?sd=120523

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/anglia-gen/message/128438?l=1

shortage of stock today caused by a dvt fault apparently, as 317505 and 317656 worked the 0625/1130/1630 london to norwich and the 0900/1400 return. Did they also work the 1900 norwich - liverpool street?

Adam :d

22.00

 

[robby p]

With Stratford until recently there was a fixed red country end of platform 11 so turning around in that platform was not possible (requiring a shunt on the temple mills lines in the morning peak). With the signalling upgrade and installation of Olympic Park Jcn you can now turn around in platform 11 and keep platform 12 (which is bi-directional) clear for ECS movements to Orient Way CS.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Yeah, aside from the (hateful) class 317/7s being withdrawn, GA have done such a brilliant job. Can we change the title to the "Greater Anglia Discussion Thread" or something like that please mods.

agreed.

 

[david_VI]

agreed.

I agree too. At least the Official GA thread! Where's a mod!?

 

[ginger]

So from a staff viewpoint clearly it is better! Good! Hard working professional railway people need to be treated with respect which NX failed to do on any level.....

But from a Passengers viewpoint it is getting considerably worse! Let's take last nights shambles shall we....

We all know it was a Network rail issue with 2 sets of singals failing - Witham and Marks Tey.....we all know the knock on effects of trains being in the wrong place....

But GAs response was truely dreadful.......zero announcements, poor clueless staff desperate for information, no driver announcements when we did eventually get on a train (which was filthy but no surprise there)..........and of course many staff seem to AWOL when Liv st if full irate commuters who have been badly let down - cant blame them personally but the station should be full of staff with info on occassions such as this!

GAs disruption management was worse than anything NX threw at us.....but dont take my word for it.....an entire trainload of commuters were ranting about the shambolic performance of GA this morning!

From a Passengers viewpoint it has got worse over the past 4 months and GA appear clueless!

 

[bezzer]

So from a staff viewpoint clearly it is better! Good! Hard working professional railway people need to be treated with respect which NX failed to do on any level.....

But from a Passengers viewpoint it is getting considerably worse! Let's take last nights shambles shall we....

We all know it was a Network rail issue with 2 sets of singals failing - Witham and Marks Tey.....we all know the knock on effects of trains being in the wrong place....

But GAs response was truely dreadful.......zero announcements, poor clueless staff desperate for information, no driver announcements when we did eventually get on a train (which was filthy but no surprise there)..........and of course many staff seem to AWOL when Liv st if full irate commuters whohave been badly let down - cant blame them personally but the station should be full of staff with info on occassions such as this!

GAs disruption management was worse than anything NX threw at us.....but dont take my word for it.....an entire trainload of commuters were ranting about the shambolic performance of GA this morning!

From a Passengers viewpoint it has got worse over the past 4 months and GA appear clueless!

As I said before mate, find another way to travel if you are that unhappy but get into the real world. Also a passenger regularly and couldn't be more impressed with the service.

 

[NSE]

I hope they do repaint the Blue/White 317s/321s, but I doubt it, as they have only just been repainted.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49799937@N06/6952976642/in/photostream/

Is 170201 going off to be repainted?

Adam

Nope. I saw it two days ago. Still the same livery.

 

[captainbigun]

As I said before mate, find another way to travel if you are that unhappy but get into the real world. Also a passenger regularly and couldn't be more impressed with the service.

There are aspects that are clearly better with GA. However, there is still a lack of investment in the fleet and until the franchise is re-let we are stuck with GA.

I understand Mr Haket had his nose put out of joint during the conflab with the various stakeholders in Ipswich a couple of weeks back.

I observe it is easy for someone to come and paper over cracks for a short franchise, how sustainable is the current regime over 10 years?

 

[ginger]

There are aspects that are clearly better with GA. However, there is still a lack of investment in the fleet and until the franchise is re-let we are stuck with GA.

I understand Mr Haket had his nose put out of joint during the conflab with the various stakeholders in Ipswich a couple of weeks back.

I observe it is easy for someone to come and paper over cracks for a short franchise, how sustainable is the current regime over 10 years?

the staff are a lot happier and bravo to that! At least the trains will be cleaned properly once in 2 1/2 years.....but to be honest they should be done on a more regular basis.....

And as Ruud confirmed in his Rail Mag interview, he thinks the rolling stock is ok (clearly dillusional) and he has no idea how to make disruptions better or improve the maintenance regime of the current fleet.....hence the daily litany of unit failures.

How anyone who commutes can say it is better is beyond me!

But agree, anyone who took over this pup of a tax collection exercise for the treasury was damned......it is just that Abelio bid more tax collection and less investment than anyone else.....

To be honest, with a deteriorating service that we know have after 4 months Ruud deserves it.......he needs to be aware that it will only get worse.....

As I have said before on here I think Abelio seriously underestimated the sense of bad feeling that NX and the Dft left!

 

[slick]

I am a driver for GA on the West Anglia side. Most posts on here have a degree of validity to them. My opinion is this. Things have improved but could be improved alot more...

The Good

The units are getting much better, defects are being handled alot quicker, units are cleaner, stations are getting fresh paint, PIS systems are finally working in the main, now its more likely to get one that works as a pose to before under NX to get one that was working was miracle! As has been discussed the morale is much better! Tracks are being replaced although down to NR it does improve things for drivers and passengers alike! Most areas where you were thrown around are now a thing of the past. Crackdown on tickects at non barier stations, and the GA Officers that I regularly see have really made a huge difference! Instances of abuse and kids mucking about, pulling doors have decreased drastically especially on the Hertford east lines. Which in turn minimises delays. If anybody does have problems I highly recomend GA's twitter feed. Mainly because you can get direct answers and its run by control, Ive often found out things that local stations had no idea about. Again I cant comment for the GE side but the WA has definatley improved, lets hope it gets better!

The Bad

I agree with the posters that have said disruption managment has to be one of GAs biggest weaknesses. Although that could be down to the fact that the people pulling the strings are the same people from NX! Heres a great example. Last night I went out to meet my hertford service that should have been split and I was to take the rear four coaches left in london. Except for the fact control never told the driver or station staff the unit needed splitting as it was a last minute change. So off went all 8 coaches ECS! So now I have no train. Ok no problem two lots of 8 car 317 ECS due to leave in the next 15 mins. Still ample time to nick 4 coaches and still depart on time. Control inform me the whole lots cancelled. Ok fine, not a problem. Some units have to be sent to depots for mileage, maintenance etc. But the bit which makes me sympathise with passengers is this bit. My train then dissappears of the board completly, no announcements of it being cancelled, nothing. It appeared that I was the only one in Liverpool Street who knew the train was cancelled! I dont think that it is acceptable for passengers to not be given an explanation as to why a trains cancelled or at the very least be told it is cancelled. Trains shouldnt just 'dissapear'. When it does go horribly wrong GA dont respond quick enough nor communicate with staff effectively. If staff dont know whats going on the passengers havent got a chance in hell. As a driver I shouldnt be telling staff my trains cancelled it should be the other way round. All it takes is one call, then one click, and one PA. At least then people know the score.

The Ugly

Train pathing is also a real issue. There are many services that are timed far too closely. The knock on effect of one train being 2-3 mins late can cause most trains in the peak to leave anything up to 5-10 mins late. Infact in the peak I cant remember leaving on time wheels turning. Again. Not GAs fault as they were told they must continue NXs December 2011 timetable, Im interested to see what they do after the olympics because some of the diagrams I often look down at and think "your having a laugh". NX seemed to think knocking out lots of services means lots of extra seats, which it does, but whats the point if 80 per cent of those trains are late? Or your sitting in a station booked for 10mins enroute? Often services which need extra capacity are full and standing and others which dont are half empty! I think there needs to be a good balance between frequency and capacity and at the moment its not quite there.

Lets hope things stay on the rise though. As has been said in earlier posts I think GA so far have done an excellent job at sweeping up NXs mess. Lets hope they continue with their progress!

 

[jon0844]

And as Ruud confirmed in his Rail Mag interview, he thinks the rolling stock is ok (clearly dillusional)

How is it not okay?

With a proper refresh and good maintenance, most of the rolling stock GA has (and the next franchisee will inherit) can go on for many more years.

You could buy all-new trains, with the many teething problems that come with it, or you could work with what you have. New wall panels, flooring, seats, toilet facilities and a proper clean (perhaps with upgraded lighting, CCTV, CIS) and job done.

I'd say you could get quite a bit of life out of the 315s, but definitely loads from the 317s and 321s. They're fast enough and the 317/6s show just how good things could be inside if done correctly (but sadly, NatEx didn't look after them so now they're looking as they do. Based on the 365, FCC has since refreshed its fleet and NatEx, well, didn't).

But GA can't just refresh the entire fleet, especially in such a short time. For one, it needs to keep running trains. The Olympics is also coming up, so all trains will be needed.

The only argument is whether GA should have got rid of the 317/7s. Now if they weren't deemed suitable, I wonder if they could have organised a swap with FCC for its 317/1s? Again, you'd still have the problem of getting changes made, but I wonder if the layout would have been more suitable for the GN route - with 2+2 seating preferable to 3+2. If there are more 317/7s than 1s, it might allow FCC to run more 8 or 12-car trains than they do now.

Anyway - that's a big slide off topic - but going back, I think GA has trains that are fine, except for having been left to get messy inside. Cleaning them up is always going to be quicker than ordering a new fleet though, wouldn't you agree?

In any case, do you really think the DfT would authorise brand new trains when the existing ones are still perfectly usable for now?

 

[captainbigun]

Look at the London commuter fleets, the GE and WAGN collection are amongst the oldest and it shows. The issue for me is lack of air con and the poor seating (too low), especially problematic when your force ventilated unit is stuck in the blazing sun.

Unfortunately it is not possible to retro-fit aircon to the Mk3 unit families, the transformers simply don't have the spare tertiary capacity for what is an energy hungry function. The 317/7s had a compromise solution, but it wasn't well maintained and the opening of windows soon meant it was fighting a losing battle.

I can't see the 317s lasting the next franchise, they are now becoming a problem (usual issues with obsolesence/corrosion). The 321s less so, but they to will become problematic in the next decade.

The 317/7s could have had their seating configuration altered. GA have chosen to up their franchise re-payments and save elsewhere. I still think this will bite at somepoint.

 

[jon0844]

Didn't another fleet of 317s also get aircon added?

To me, the fact that you could still open the windows would mean ANY aircon system would be doomed to fail. What was NX (or the ROSCO) thinking? It would have to work flat out, and still not cool the train down.

The seating could surely be replaced completely, and it's just a case of deciding how far to go. Take what Southern did to get new life to some of the 313s?

I am not saying don't get new rolling stock (the mechanicals, as well as obtaining parts etc will probably decide that) but I think GA could do a lot to make the current fleet a lot nicer in the meantime. But, we all know that TOCs aren't likely to stump up the money themselves - especially for such a short period of time that they have the franchise.

 

[secludedsfx]

I feel GA have been doing a great job and have to agree with comments that the staff are definetly happier.
Good to see that the units have been cleaned (hope this continues) and are having much needed work done to them.
The thing is though I've had a good experience with GA's distruption management.
A train was cancelled from Norwich into Liverpool street and this was on the boards and three anouncements were made about it whilst I was at Ipswich station so no issue there as I can see.

 

[captainbigun]

Didn't another fleet of 317s also get aircon added?

To me, the fact that you could still open the windows would mean ANY aircon system would be doomed to fail. What was NX (or the ROSCO) thinking? It would have to work flat out, and still not cool the train down.

No, just the StanEx conversions. It was prior to NatEx.

Too expensive to change the windows, and air con not reliable enough to seal up the hoppers.

 

[jon0844]

I thought the 317/5s got it too? Whatever ones were done last (ex 317/1s from FCC?).

I really don't know why they bothered then. It was doomed from day one, and must have cost a fair bit - including ongoing costs of maintenance and increased electricity consumption...

 

[SprinterMan]

I thought the 317/5s got it too? Whatever ones were done last (ex 317/1s from FCC?).

I really don't know why they bothered then. It was doomed from day one, and must have cost a fair bit - including ongoing costs of maintenance and increased electricity consumption...

This was one of the reasons (along with lack of seats) that GA chose to withdraw the 317/7s and not some of the older 317/5s. Because of their air-con they were more expensive to lease and more complicated & expensive to maintain. It was WAGN that was operating them when the refurb took place, and tbh the air-con isn't the only bit of shoddy workmanship in that refurb :P

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, their attempt at refreshing the 317/1s on the GN side was quite amazing in it's badness. Looked great when first done, but the flooring fell apart in a matter of weeks. No vinyl/lino floor - it almost looked like cardboard when it started to peel and break up.

Then there was the use of route maps, safety signs and stupid posters that were stuck to the walls - which ripped off the anti-graffiti paint coating when removed (either by the TOC or passengers).

The only good thing was the anti-etch film on the glass.

Later on they fitted CCTV and passenger information screens, but didn't order the software to make them work - which FCC eventually did a year or two later after taking over.

I doubt many people (staff or passengers) were sad to see NX losing the GN route either!

 

[SprinterMan]

Yeah, their attempt at refreshing the 317/1s on the GN side was quite amazing in it's badness. Looked great when first done, but the flooring fell apart in a matter of weeks. No vinyl/lino floor - it almost looked like cardboard when it started to peel and break up.

Then there was the use of route maps, safety signs and stupid posters that were stuck to the walls - which ripped off the anti-graffiti paint coating when removed (either by the TOC or passengers).

The only good thing was the anti-etch film on the glass.

Later on they fitted CCTV and passenger information screens, but didn't order the software to make them work - which FCC eventually did a year or two later after taking over.

I doubt many people (staff or passengers) were sad to see NX losing the GN route either!

Yes, it did seem WAGN were the king of bad refurbishments. The 317/1s that were done were done appallingly, and the 317/7s could have been good if it wasn't for the dodgy air-con and internal doors that attack passengers :P

'one' did a good job with the 317/8s IMO, and an ok job (not great) with the 317/5s. The 317/6s (esp. the ones with the new 379-style seat covers) are very good, and 379>>317/7 any day of the week.

 

[jon0844]

The 379s are very nice indeed, and I'm sure replacing the 317s, 321s and 315s with these would be great - if rather expensive!

 

[SprinterMan]

The 379s are very nice indeed, and I'm sure replacing the 317s, 321s and 315s with these would be great - if rather expensive!

In an ideal world 378s would replace the 315s, 379s would replace the 317s and a mix of 379s and 360s would replace the 321s (the seating capacity of the 360 is needed on some peak services). This will never happen but would be very nice if it did. Then the 317s and 321s could undergo a very heavy refurbishment and rebuild and then go north to work TPX services among other things :P