West Coast Bids Are In on Friday 4 May

[WatcherZero]

To give some stations a direct service to London off peak may well have involved adding additional calls to current services. Would they have been able to apply to do this or were they required to just run the DfT timetable until the end of the franchise?

They can add stops to an existing service very easily, I believe its quite a short paperwork process to apply for a minor amendment compared to a wholly new service?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They have never applied for additional paths/services (which they are entitled to do) whereas other tocs have.

If you mean Virgin, what about Wrexham? (Only one train a day but still...).
In any case they can't do much more with the stock they have, and DfT kept the rest of the tilting Voyagers on XC (but with tilt disabled - what a waste).

 

[southerner2174]

The WC Voyager lease is up in 2016.

Nothing to stop First winning, but they would then extend continuously from Penzance, Swansea and Brighton to Kings Lynn, Newcastle and Wick (via London, Manchester and Glasgow/Edinburgh).
More cross country than Cross Country?
Of course, they might not retain GW/TL/TP.

I'd love to know where they will magic up any spare pathways from Brighton, think they have all been snapped up long ago!!!!

 

[HH]

I doubt very much that First will win due to their current cash difficulties and the way the franchise will work - DfT will apply a solvency test against each bid and request extra cash if they think the bid has a good chance to go "bust".

As for Timetables, well given the restrictive TSR and the necessity of running tilting trains (non-tilts can't run at 125), I can't see too much creativity there. I hope to be proved wrong, but additional, compliant, rolling stock would be very expensive, and DfT just provided a heap of extra Pendo carriages - so extra demand will take a while to fill those up.

 

[Rich McLean]

With the current Euston-North Wales Operation, would it be an idea to run up to North Wales via Shrewsbury on certain journeys, ie 1tp2h, or would this be a pathing issue. Would introduce direct services to London from Telford, Shrewsbury and Wrexham again, but would still serve North Wales?

 

[Nym]

With the current Euston-North Wales Operation, would it be an idea to run up to North Wales via Shrewsbury on certain journeys, ie 1tp2h, or would this be a pathing issue. Would introduce direct services to London from Telford, Shrewsbury and Wrexham again, but would still serve North Wales?

Been done to death, journey times are stupid...

 

[PR1Berske]

No it will be a 30 year writeoff with the Dft guarenteeing they will be leased for 15, i.e. for the second half of their lives the ROSCO would have to find a new leaser if they became unwanted.

Recouping investment beyond the length of the franchise is also in and I expect a heavily hyped lick of paint will be part of the award press release. Im still campaigning for and praying for proper investment in rebuilding Wigan NW giving it a canopy and more platforms but from what ive heard beyond the current lick of paint program their unambitiously looking at just renumbering platforms consecutivley with Wallgate and merging the Pids data, a new glass frontage/lobby area, making Manchester terminators terminate at NW rather than Wallgate and making the walk between the two so obvious a blind man could see it (since signposts doesnt seem to work).

I like how this forum hides such information in threads like this

I had no idea about the platform renumbering. Any extra info/on-line info on this?

 

[WCMLaddict]

I like how this forum hides such information in threads like this

I had no idea about the platform renumbering. Any extra info/on-line info on this?

Me neither. I wonder how this 'one Wigan station' would work with both stations run by different companies.
I must say Wigan NW already looks much better with the current refurb almost done. If they could only upgrade the waiting rooms a bit.
I refuse to believe that people find it difficult to find their way from one station to another. It is probably more anecdotal than real problem.
Oh and the new carpark prices are just stupid! The carpark next to Wallgate is half the price and only a minute or two away.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'd love to know where they will magic up any spare pathways from Brighton, think they have all been snapped up long ago!!!!

I'm not suggesting any more/different paths will happen.
It's just the marketing opportunity to sell a nationwide service on First, currently limited essentially to Cross Country.
Anyway it's not likely to happen - I bet if they were to win WC they would then lose GW 3 months later...
But 15 years of both franchises under one operator would be a game-changer.

 

[HH]

Just one point. DfT had indicated that there would be a mechanism for residual value. However they were unable to come up with anything that satisfied them would be fair to both buyer and seller. There is, therefore, nothing in the final ITT/FA on this. Bidders have to take risk for all expenditure over 13 years 4 months (as they do not have the power of extension within their hands).

 

[WatcherZero]

I like how this forum hides such information in threads like this

I had no idea about the platform renumbering. Any extra info/on-line info on this?

None online at the moment, its coming out of the Wigan Transport Strategy development which should be completed by the end of the year (involving Wigan Council/Network Rail/TFGM). Their also studying opening one of more rail freight yards and commisioned a study on a possible Leigh station which examined in depth four station options (the Independent Pennington station campaigns plan, their own Pennington station plan and two station locations on Chat Moss) but concluded they couldnt improve on existing provision without massive ongoing subsidy.

http://www.wigan.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/DD06A339-F532-4AAA-A059-DDE5111998B1/0/LARSReport.pdf

http://www.wigan.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/79FA68C8-1575-4ED0-9C36-DD8E45BAD5EA/0/LARSAppendices.pdf


And a report on Road Congestion
http://www.wigan.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A32EB7BC-2FF0-4A59-A947-B3B942D62D3F/0/TransportStudyPart1.pdf
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Just one point. DfT had indicated that there would be a mechanism for residual value. However they were unable to come up with anything that satisfied them would be fair to both buyer and seller. There is, therefore, nothing in the final ITT/FA on this. Bidders have to take risk for all expenditure over 13 years 4 months (as they do not have the power of extension within their hands).

As I understand it it wont apply to the core franchise assets but will apply to things proposed to improve or expand beyond that on a case by case basis.

 

[SS4]

I wonder what the knock on effect will be on LM services as a secondary operator as it were. If the winner hikes fares will LM also hike fares since they can get away with it?

 

[All Line Rover]

I wonder what the knock on effect will be on LM services as a secondary operator as it were. If the winner hikes fares will LM also hike fares since they can get away with it?

This won't happen, at least on the Crewe to London route (and by extension, the Birmingham to London route, as Crewe to London tickets are valid via Birmingham). On the Crewe to London route, LM can't compete on the Anytime fares seeing as their first arrival into London is at 09:44, this being their only "Peak" morning service (their next arrival at 10:49 being Off-Peak). So even though LM's Peak and First Class fares are unregulated, I doubt they'll increase them drastically, even if the new WCML franchise holder drastically increases their own unregulated fares - to the contrary, in the next fares round, LM are introducing First Class Off-Peak Return fares, valid on all services except the 09:44 arrival. It's £55 from Crewe to London, compared to £105 for an Anytime Return.

LM mainly compete on Off-Peak fares. These are regulated, so the new WCML franchise holder can't drastically increase these. An "Any Permitted" Off-Peak Return from Crewe to London costs £67.40 and an "LM Only" Off-Peak Return costs £33. LM can't increase that fare by much as they will no longer be competitive.

So, in summary, I wouldn't worry about LM drastically increasing their fares.

 

[Schnellzug]

Since National Excuse are thankfully not in it, it's pretty much academic anyway really isn't it, since no one will be likely to do anything exciting like replace poorly designed rolling stock with something better.

 

[PR1Berske]

Thanks for the Wigan info

I'm from Preston, so I'm used to the new All White Subways. You get accustomed to them in time, trust me.

 

[HH]

As I understand it it wont apply to the core franchise assets but will apply to things proposed to improve or expand beyond that on a case by case basis.

Except that DfT won't do anything at bidder stage, which leaves bidders in a catch 22: do they put it in the bid, when to get "counted" it has to be a committed obligation with a COPA (penalty for non completion) attached and hope to get it declared a franchise asset if successful?

DfT had a chance to sort this problem out and they failed.

I should mention one other thing, because I don't suppose many here are aware, but the new franchise agreement, of which ICWC is the first, has transferred risk massively to the TOCs*. It will be interesting to see how keen the price is. IMO it will frighten off some bidders.

* Amongst other changes, the new revenue support mechanism is dependent only on movements in National GDP, not the best measure of how the economy will affect revenue (and works differently than how TOCs thought it would from a presentation at ATOC just before Xmas); the DfT has effectively banned SoSRAs (Secretary of State Risk Assumptions - means DfT would take the risk of certain situations beyond franchisee's control); and the taking on of run-down NR station assets with no liability remaining with NR. Any one of these is a significant change of risk.