Unpopular opinions

[SprinterMan]

57/3s are the most attractive sort of 57, because they have the nice circle headlights, and the dellner coupler makes the front end interesting, unlike the 57/6s which just look weird (except 57601, which has the number painted on the front to break it up a bit) :P

 

[fgwrich]

57/3s are the most attractive sort of 57, because they have the nice circle headlights, and the dellner coupler makes the front end interesting, unlike the 57/6s which just look weird (except 57601, which has the number painted on the front to break it up a bit) :P

Not forgetting the Beautifully repainted 57604!

(I do too like the refurbished 57s, But the smartness of the 6s does it more for me)

 

[SprinterMan]

Not forgetting the Beautifully repainted 57604!

(I do too like the refurbished 57s, But the smartness of the 6s does it more for me)

I think it might just be because I'm in ATW/VT land and not FGW land, but it looks to me like 57/6s are pulling a gormless expression, and this annoys me :P

57/3s look purposeful and business like with the double couplers, but looked equally stupid with the Virgin badges on the front when they were new. It was a real shame that ATW replaced their 57/3s with 67s, as while 67s are very good locos they seem a bit soulless

 

[Minilad]

57s are duffs. Hence crap

 

[SprinterMan]

57s are duffs. Hence crap

Not a fan of 47s eh? How come?

 

[Minilad]

Not a fan of 47s eh? How come?

Because I come from an age where there were far more interesting things to bash. 47s are only really liked by younger enthusiasts who don't know any better. Thats a generalisation of course but holds true in the main

 

[Crimson_Quiff]

57/3s are the most attractive sort of 57, because they have the nice circle headlights, and the dellner coupler makes the front end interesting, unlike the 57/6s which just look weird (except 57601, which has the number painted on the front to break it up a bit) :P

The DRS 57/0s and Wild West Ronnie are the best sounding Heinz for me. 57/3's are ok but my least favourite, owing to the slightly different lump and that delner-ma-wotsit on the front! 57/6s (FGW) are the best looking ones for me. Was never a fan of plough-fitted Spoons but for some reason, the FGW 57s look good with them on!

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

The Intercity West Coast franchise should have stopper services and be operated in a joint venture by 4 operators. I like the idea, but it'll be unpopular like the thread suggests.

 

[33056]

Because I come from an age where there were far more interesting things to bash. 47s are only really liked by younger enthusiasts who don't know any better. Thats a generalisation of course but holds true in the main

Very true, I don't actually hate 47s but they are near the bottom of my list of favoured motive power.

 

[Kneedown]

GWML and TP electrification should be put on hold until the entire MML and local routes in the East Midlands have been wired.

180's should be reclaimed from the open access cowboys and put on the Liverpool - Norwich's, replacing the 158's which could then replace 156's around the country which could replace 153's around the country which could replace Pacers around the country which could then be given to the open access cowboys.

Well...... you DID ask!

 

[Schnellzug]

GWML and TP electrification should be put on hold until the entire MML and local routes in the East Midlands have been wired.

180's should be reclaimed from the open access cowboys and put on the Liverpool - Norwich's,

No, Portsmouth-Cardiff.

I don't understand why people hate Open Access, by the way; do people want monopolistic suppliers who can charge what they want?

 

[dangie]

Beeching was right.

National Rail encourages the integrated use of cycles and trains
So why make it so bl**dy impossible to do it then..!!

Suitcases should have a maximum size of......

Feet on seats will result in being thrown off the train... not literally perhaps

All with a Scouse accent should have separate carriage (this could well be a popular opinion )

 

[fgwrich]

Beeching was right.

National Rail encourages the integrated use of cycles and trains
So why make it so bl**dy impossible to do it then..!!

Suitcases should have a maximum size of......

Feet on seats will result in being thrown off the train... not literally perhaps

All with a Scouse accent should have separate carriage (this could well be a popular opinion )

Or bring back cattle class & lugguage vans for Mr & Mrs Vicky Pollard and Co!

 

[Kneedown]

No, Portsmouth-Cardiff.

I don't understand why people hate Open Access, by the way; do people want monopolistic suppliers who can charge what they want?

Plenty of Pacers left over for Pompey - Cardiff

I don't hate open access, but i do hate the fact that they can have dibs on rolling stock that the franchised operators could put to good use. They should have to source their own stock.

 

[CC 72100]

Digital reservations displays are more trouble than they're worth and we should all revert back to paper on seat backs.

A proper long distance version of a 158, maybe with 5 or 6 coaches and a quieter travelling environment would be ideal. The seats are really comfortable, they line up with the windows...

 

[John55]

Plenty of Pacers left over for Pompey - Cardiff

I don't hate open access, but i do hate the fact that they can have dibs on rolling stock that the franchised operators could put to good use. They should have to source their own stock.

Please explain how open access operators have any different access to rolling stock than anyone else?

 

[Kneedown]

Please explain how open access operators have any different access to rolling stock than anyone else?

They don't have different access. Thats the problem. They tie up rolling stock on fantasy services when the franchises are obliged to provide services. Services that evolve to the extent that more or better stock may be required, but they cannot get it as there is none available.
By all means let them play trains, but make them sort out their own stock rather than rob the limited national pool.

 

[fgwrich]

Attitudes / Opinons / Corporate sounding junk...

Today was the first time for a while that the Paignton & Dartmouth Railway, or for some Dartmouth Steam and Riverboat Companys class 25 was out and in service - Good, finally and hopefully a start in the right direction to hopefuly make more occasional use of D7535...

Unfortunatly, the day seems to have been dampend slightly by a poster put up in several places in the station - explaining:

'On Friday the 4th of May, we will be operating our D7535 Mercury Diesel Engine and NOT a Steam Train.

The Steam Train will be back in operation on the Saturday 5th of May.

Sorry for any inconvenience'​

Sorry for any inconvenience? Why, If youve advertised that there will be a Class 25 out and about then why should i be inconvenienced? And what about the people who have turned up for the 25!

I for one am glad to see it out again, and hopefully the PDR (I dont care what it's called anymore, as far as i know it as, it will always be the Paignton and Dartmouth!) will take note too - and at least have a few Diesel Days throught the yearly calendar, with much better advertising too! What im not so glad to see though is the comments coming from the steam 'enthusiasts'...Such as The steam is best much beter than DIESEL comments, trying to blank out any form or mentioning of a diesel, and telling anyone who likes diesels to Get A Life!

Why? Why should i get a life when i already have one! Why if anything do you have to be insulting because i like something different to you...I like diesels, and i like some steam too...But with such an annoying and quite frankly p*ss poor attitude...If we are to preserve locos and rolling stock for the future, then we are all going to have to work together - afterall, this is the sort of attitude that won't create events for enthusiasts who prefer diesels to steam, and how would lines like The West Somerset, South Devon, Severn Valley, gloucs warks railway & the Swanage Railway - who all bar one will be hosting Diesel Galas this year get on?...

Jeeze! Rant Over and out!

 

[Crimson_Quiff]

'On Friday the 4th of May, we will be operating our D7535 Mercury Diesel Engine and NOT a Steam Train.

The Steam Train will be back in operation on the Saturday 5th of May.

Sorry for any inconvenience'​

Another case of intolerence towards diesel power, IMO. I don't mean to sound like a moaning old fuddy-duddy but seriously, there is a real hatred towards diesel with some people. I can take a bit of banter but when it's proper 'Diesels are a load of junk! I hate diesels!! Diesels should be banned from all railways and should be exclusively Steam. Grr!!'. It's like Jeez, calm the f*ck down! :roll:

I'm not saying every steam enthusiast has that attitude, but there are a few out there are really like that.

 

[cj_1985]

They don't have different access. Thats the problem. They tie up rolling stock on fantasy services when the franchises are obliged to provide services. Services that evolve to the extent that more or better stock may be required, but they cannot get it as there is none available.
By all means let them play trains, but make them sort out their own stock rather than rob the limited national pool.

in some cases that could be a fair view...
but consider Hull trains... when they started they subleased stock from their sister TOC "Anglia Railways"... but they then ordered their own BRAND NEW stock... and again replaced that with yet more BRAND NEW stock.. which allowed their old units (Turbostars) to be displaced to a related TOC that operated as a franchise.

so there is 2 lots of BRAND NEW stock that was ordered for an open access operator that laterly was transfered to Franchised TOCs...

The class 180s that you seem to be banging on about franchised operators being able to use... well at the time.. no one WAS using them, and beisdes an idea from NXEC/EC and Virgin for use of a couple.. the units were sat doing nothing, and earning nothing for anyone.

As for your "Fantasy Services" comment...
again, some of the routes/services operated by open access firms could seems a bit like "Fantasy"... but again im going to use Hull Trains as an example... They started operating their services to/from Hull at a time when the franchised ICEC operator was only operating something like 1 or 2 services a day... they (HT) obviously found a demand for additional services... and have helped grow the market (both for themselves and for the ICEC franchise) and demand for services to/from hull...


When it comes to the stock that OA operators use that is direct ex BR stock, or displaced/unwanted stock ordered post privitisation.... you honestly seem to hold the belief that this stock should just sit in a siding waiting for a franchise (or the DfT) to decide to utilise them... Its worth remembering that DfT/Franchise operators normally have first refusal on most stock before an OA firm (for example) could lease or buy the stock.
You would probably be one of the first to moan about te stock sitting and not being used when its fully functional.

You could even use the example of the ex Virgin HSTs and LHCS mk3s that COULD have been used for other operators, but wasnt... even though the stock was available for considerable time after they were taken out of service... the HSTs - some went to other franchises, some went to GC and others were bought outright by First Group... There was every chance that (some of) those HST PCs and Carraiges could have ended up being scrapped if FG and GC hadn't bought the PCs and Stock that they did, when they did.. which would have completly removed any potential benefit for the traveling public.
The Mk3 LHCS would probably have ended up with a lot more of them having been scrapped , had the likes of DB Regio, Cargo-D, GC, and XC not aquired/ringfenced the stock when they were sat gathering moss at long marston.

 

[Johnuk123]

Attitudes / Opinons / Corporate sounding junk...

Today was the first time for a while that the Paignton & Dartmouth Railway, or for some Dartmouth Steam and Riverboat Companys class 25 was out and in service - Good, finally and hopefully a start in the right direction to hopefuly make more occasional use of D7535...

Unfortunatly, the day seems to have been dampend slightly by a poster put up in several places in the station - explaining:

'On Friday the 4th of May, we will be operating our D7535 Mercury Diesel Engine and NOT a Steam Train.

The Steam Train will be back in operation on the Saturday 5th of May.

Sorry for any inconvenience'​

Sorry for any inconvenience? Why, If youve advertised that there will be a Class 25 out and about then why should i be inconvenienced? And what about the people who have turned up for the 25!

I for one am glad to see it out again, and hopefully the PDR (I dont care what it's called anymore, as far as i know it as, it will always be the Paignton and Dartmouth!) will take note too - and at least have a few Diesel Days throught the yearly calendar, with much better advertising too! What im not so glad to see though is the comments coming from the steam 'enthusiasts'...Such as The steam is best much beter than DIESEL comments, trying to blank out any form or mentioning of a diesel, and telling anyone who likes diesels to Get A Life!

Why? Why should i get a life when i already have one! Why if anything do you have to be insulting because i like something different to you...I like diesels, and i like some steam too...But with such an annoying and quite frankly p*ss poor attitude...If we are to preserve locos and rolling stock for the future, then we are all going to have to work together - afterall, this is the sort of attitude that won't create events for enthusiasts who prefer diesels to steam, and how would lines like The West Somerset, South Devon, Severn Valley, gloucs warks railway & the Swanage Railway - who all bar one will be hosting Diesel Galas this year get on?...

Jeeze! Rant Over and out!

I agree with all you say.I am old enough to remember steam when I was a young lad and I still love steam engines.

But I also like other forms of railway traction and If some people prefer one type to another than that's fine with me.

Diesel days are great and are just as interesting as steam days.

 

[Schnellzug]

in some cases that could be a fair view...
but consider Hull trains... when they started they subleased stock from their sister TOC "Anglia Railways"... but they then ordered their own BRAND NEW stock... and again replaced that with yet more BRAND NEW stock.. which allowed their old units (Turbostars) to be displaced to a related TOC that operated as a franchise.

so there is 2 lots of BRAND NEW stock that was ordered for an open access operator that laterly was transfered to Franchised TOCs...

The class 180s that you seem to be banging on about franchised operators being able to use... well at the time.. no one WAS using them, and beisdes an idea from NXEC/EC and Virgin for use of a couple.. the units were sat doing nothing, and earning nothing for anyone..

Those are all fair points (I won't repeat them all to save space); WSM used redundant mk 3 stock that is now used by Chiltern, and as you say no one wanted the 180s at the time GC and HT took them on. Similarly, GC didn't take up HSTs that could have been used by someone else; Virgin didn't want the power cars, and they converted Mk 3 hauled stock (which again, Virgin no longer wanted and no one else (then) seemed to be clamouring for).

 

[Drsatan]

FGW have improved a lot in recent years and are one of the best TOCs out there. Any TOC which is prepared to convert redundant Mk3 buffets into TSO coaches and take on more 150s than required with less than a year to go until the franchise is relet deserves praise.

377s aren't bad trains, apart from the subclass with 3+2 seating which has rock hard seats.

Southern should be forced to give up the Gatwick Express brand name since it's meaningless now.

SWT's 159s are the best DMUs I have ever traveled on.

HS3 (successor to HS2) should be built from London to Plymouth, with a possible extension to Penzance.

Voyagers should be removed from XC services whenever more appropriate trains arrive and should be used on routes which require trains with a light axle load. A good example would be Birmingham International - Pwhelli. I'd also retain only one disabled toilet on each Voyager, and replace the remaining toilets with smaller ones.

 

[ainsworth74]

Southern should be forced to give up the Gatwick Express brand name since it's meaningless now.

Surely that's a popular opinion rather than an unpopular one

 

[sprinterguy]

Surely that's a popular opinion rather than an unpopular one

As is this:

Voyagers should be removed from XC services whenever more appropriate trains arrive and should be used on routes which require trains with a light axle load. A good example would be Birmingham International - Pwhelli. I'd also retain only one disabled toilet on each Voyager, and replace the remaining toilets with smaller ones.

And probably this one too:

HS3 (successor to HS2) should be built from London to Plymouth, with a possible extension to Penzance.

They sound like good, sound advice to me, rather than being widely lambasted!

 

[CC 72100]

FGW have improved a lot in recent years and are one of the best TOCs out there. Any TOC which is prepared to convert redundant Mk3 buffets into TSO coaches and take on more 150s than required with less than a year to go until the franchise is relet deserves praise.

377s aren't bad trains, apart from the subclass with 3+2 seating which has rock hard seats.

Southern should be forced to give up the Gatwick Express brand name since it's meaningless now.

SWT's 159s are the best DMUs I have ever traveled on.

HS3 (successor to HS2) should be built from London to Plymouth, with a possible extension to Penzance.

Voyagers should be removed from XC services whenever more appropriate trains arrive and should be used on routes which require trains with a light axle load. A good example would be Birmingham International - Pwhelli. I'd also retain only one disabled toilet on each Voyager, and replace the remaining toilets with smaller ones.

I actually find myself agreeing with all of your points there!

 

[Ivo]

FGW have improved a lot in recent years and are one of the best TOCs out there. Any TOC which is prepared to convert redundant Mk3 buffets into TSO coaches and take on more 150s than required with less than a year to go until the franchise is relet deserves praise.

377s aren't bad trains, apart from the subclass with 3+2 seating which has rock hard seats.

Southern should be forced to give up the Gatwick Express brand name since it's meaningless now.

SWT's 159s are the best DMUs I have ever traveled on.

HS3 (successor to HS2) should be built from London to Plymouth, with a possible extension to Penzance.

Voyagers should be removed from XC services whenever more appropriate trains arrive and should be used on routes which require trains with a light axle load. A good example would be Birmingham International - Pwhelli. I'd also retain only one disabled toilet on each Voyager, and replace the remaining toilets with smaller ones.

Are you sure those are really to be unpopular opinions...?

 

[Schnellzug]

I actually find myself agreeing with all of your points there!

All except the last one; i think the Voyagers ought to be cascaded to Waterloo_Exeter (though keeping the 159s for semi-fasts).

 

[sprinterguy]

All except the last one; i think the Voyagers ought to be cascaded to Waterloo_Exeter (though keeping the 159s for semi-fasts).

I really wouldn't fancy that. Already in a three carriage 159 you have very nearly the same number of seats (23 first class, 170 standard class) as in a four carriage 220 (26 first class and 174 standard class). Plus with the 220s, you're stuck with a four carriage formation or eight carriages for a pair, whereas with the 159s you can have 3,6,9 or a maximum of ten carriages if working in multiple with 158s. Clearly, even a nine carriage 159 formation has considerably more seats than a pair of 220s.

 

[moonrakerz]

Pacers are not the route of all evil

Don't know if that was intentional - but, oh yes they are