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FA Cup Final- Virgin Trains Press Release

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northwichcat

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I always thought it was the Glasgow area that was second busiest?

Possibly I've been reading too much in to Serco/Abeillo's upselling of Merseyrail then.

Relating to the topic of engineering works on FA cup final day, it turns out a league match between Liverpool and Chelsea was scheduled in for the May bank holiday weekend before both times qualified for the final, which Sky Sports had secured for TV coverage. So there would have been a few thousand travelling fans between Liverpool and London anyway.
 
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ChiefPlanner

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Liverpool has one of the highest percentages of railway stations to population in non London areas , so yes - a good % are regular rail users , if only on the DC system.
 

lfc84

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Possibly I've been reading too much in to Serco/Abeillo's upselling of Merseyrail then.

Relating to the topic of engineering works on FA cup final day, it turns out a league match between Liverpool and Chelsea was scheduled in for the May bank holiday weekend before both times qualified for the final, which Sky Sports had secured for TV coverage. So there would have been a few thousand travelling fans between Liverpool and London anyway.

It was confirmed May 2011

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2900...o-have-1715-kick-off-time-in-2012-and-be-held
 

Bald Rick

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This is not a new problem.

Back in 93 we had the line through Stoke closed in mid May for long planned works to replace the station subway. It's the weekend of the Autoglass trophy final at Wembley. And who gets there? Stockport and Port Vale. Clearly it was BRs fault!
 

telstarbox

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Most of those people wont be going to the game though because they will be unable to get tickets because Liverpool FC will issue tickets to season ticket holders and people who attend games regularly. They are looking after their most important customers by doing that rather than catering to the people who are suddenly interested because something big is happening. You could argue that by scheduling the engineering works over a bank holiday weekend the railway is doing the same thing.

Very good point!
 

Cherry_Picker

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Most of them will want a drink I imagine which is a strike against the car. I'm sure coach hire firms in Liverpool will do very well that weekend though.
 

ushawk

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Most of them will want a drink I imagine which is a strike against the car. I'm sure coach hire firms in Liverpool will do very well that weekend though.

Bad news if they use a coach and want to drink too, all football coaches cant have alcohol on them - against the law.
 

dk1

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They can still have a drink at the game/in London if they travel by coach though.

That would put me off though. The thought of using the onboard wc & general ambience, journey time & travel sickness. Would have to be overnight accomodation or a rail journey around the houses.
 

Deerfold

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Is there any other major economy in Europe that has such a dreadful Saturday night train service going home from its biggest entertainment city on weekend nights? Even if you can afford the £65 per person for a West End show, you are then forced to part with another £150+ for a hotel if you live anywhere on the WCML north of Rugby on the Trent Valley branch.

Well if you're not too picky you could find a decent hostel for about £25 for that night (which suggests some fans are doing this already as that's a bit higher than normal).

It'd be clean, with a basic breakfast.

Just a few others in the room with you.
 

jon0844

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A stay in a Travelodge or Premier Inn (and it doesn't have to be one near the ground - as London has excellent transport links) seems far more sensible than trying to get back home.
 

HSTEd

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Can they not run specials via the Chilterns or even MML and over the Hope Valley?

Where would they get the stock?

This is not an integrated network that can rapidly arrange things any more.
 

ushawk

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This is what I was writing as well earlier in the thread. It would make sense and has been done before during the major west coast works.


And it is in fact happening on the Sunday, an hourly service is running from late morning from Euston to Coventry and Nuneaton via the Chiltern route - but that doesnt really help for north of Crewe (closed between there and Edge Hill and Warrington BQ), only other option is having a reversal at Crewe, running up to Warrington and then from there into Liverpool but i highly doubt the route knowledge is there (always the possibility of piloting by a Northern driver if its allowed) and no idea if 221s can run on that route.
 

daniel3982

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Have EMT retained route knowledge into Manchester with HST as they ran covering the period of WCML upgrades?

Otherwise Could Liverpool fans run up East Coast to Leeds and change to TPE there?
 

pitdiver

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I blame it all on National Express.<D If they can't make money from Rail Franchises they will get it through their Coach Network. I am still waiting to hear how many extra coaches they are running on that Sunday.
 

Failed Unit

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I know passengers can get to London by travelling to Manchester, Leeds or Sheffield should they can't to use the train, but I wonder how much strengthening the other operators are doing. EMT can't cope normally so I doubt it would want the extras. May a 222 from Liverpool - St Pancras ;)
 

tbtc

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Where would they get the stock?

This is not an integrated network that can rapidly arrange things any more.

Even BR would have struggled to meet this kind of "one off" (e.g. ensuring that they had staff who were trained on HSTs and also trained on the line to Liverpool).

Then again, BR had the benefit of yards of unused stock that they could call on for "Summer Holiday" trains (and Foot-Exs etc). Nowadays stock is so intensively used on our busy railway that there aren't yards full of unused trains that can be "found" for special occasion services like these.

I don't think you can blame this on privatisation/fragmentation.
 

pitdiver

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I know passengers can get to London by travelling to Manchester, Leeds or Sheffield should they can't to use the train, but I wonder how much strengthening the other operators are doing. EMT can't cope normally so I doubt it would want the extras. May a 222 from Liverpool - St Pancras ;)

Could any other operators cope. As a matter of interest are there any other enginnering works going on that weekend
 

northwichcat

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Also if my memory serves me correctly it was held on the first Saturday in May. The new season didn't start until September. Looking on the Football League website the dates for this current season are: Start August 6th, Play-off Final May 27th. That makes the season 6-7 weeks longer than it used to be.

In addition to the Euros one issue that came up this year is that Boxing Day, a usual additional date for football matches, was on a Monday so was used instead of scheduling matches for Christmas Eve, which obviously was a Saturday.
 

jopsuk

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A lenghty missive from network rail, courtesy of The Railway Eye
I just wanted to drop you a line about the FA Cup Final, and the expected difficulties for fans travelling to and from Liverpool for the game. We’re obviously very aware of the importance of this game to the club and its supporters.

As you may be aware, both Network Rail and Virgin did tell the FA that the later kick-off time would cause problems for fans looking to travel by train to the match. If the match had kicked off in its traditional 3pm timeslot it would’ve been difficult, but possible for supporters to travel back from the game to Merseyside by rail.

However, the FA has been clear that it wants a 5.15pm kick off as this will enable it to maximise the domestic and global television audience for the game. This has exacerbated the fact that the final has already been moved forward a fortnight, both because the Champions League Final has been moved from its traditional slot on a Wednesday evening to a Saturday (19 May) and as a result of the need to give those players going to the European Championships a longer rest prior to the tournament.

In terms of the work we’re undertaking, some of it has been in the planning for 18-24 months. On the Saturday and Sunday we are rebuilding an entire junction north of Crewe, and we are also undertaking preparatory work for a major resignalling scheme at Bletchley.

At the site near Crewe there are currently five sets of crossovers, all quite close together, that make up the junction. A 30mph speed restriction is currently in place. These crossovers are being completely rebuilt, redesigned, relayed and re-spaced so the junction is opened out. This will allow us to raise the speed limit to 40mph, which will make a difference to journey time and reliability.

On Sunday, near Bletchley, we're undertaking a mixture of substantial track works for the installation of new points and signals as part of the ongoing resignalling project in this area.

Both these pieces of work are vitally important to us. The scheme at Crewe, in particular, has already had to be reprogrammed from April 2010 (when, due to the ash cloud from the volcano in Iceland, domestic flights were cancelled, and we subsequently cancelled all our work on long-distance routes).

Deferring this work would cost the company (and therefore the taxpayer) some £6m to postpone and rearrange. It would cause further disruption to the travelling public at a later date. In addition, this work is so substantial that it’s not feasible to move it to a normal weekend as the work being undertaken needs more time.

Finally, given that we have made a commitment not to work during the Olympic period (approximately six weeks covering both the Olympics and Paralympics) this May Bank Holiday weekend is even more important to us this year than it would normally be.
 

northwichcat

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I blame it all on National Express.<D If they can't make money from Rail Franchises they will get it through their Coach Network. I am still waiting to hear how many extra coaches they are running on that Sunday.

How much money will National Express make though? The standard franchise payments paid by coach operators will be static but the % of the profits will increase.

Also, is there anything to stop Selwyns running Liverpool to London services as a coach hire service for Liverpool FC selling tickets through the football club, instead of running as a franchised National Express service selling tickets though NX vendors?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A lenghty missive from network rail, courtesy of The Railway Eye

One thing that they and other articles omit is what date Network Rail first made the engineering work public. It's all very well saying it was planned 18-24 months in advance but when was it confirmed and when was it made public? If the answer to either of those questions is under 11 months ago then it was after the FA had publicly confirmed the 2012 FA cup final date.

A lot of events seem to be planned between when Network Rail decide to do engineering work and when it is made public.
 

tbtc

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A lenghty missive from network rail, courtesy of The Railway Eye

Very interesting link, thanks.

I especially like

The scheme at Crewe, in particular, has already had to be reprogrammed from April 2010 (when, due to the ash cloud from the volcano in Iceland, domestic flights were cancelled, and we subsequently cancelled all our work on long-distance routes)

...if they've already been postponed for a couple of years, and take a long time to rearrange then how long would Scousers want the engineering delayed?

Can you imagine the hysteria if there had been a crash on a section of badly maintained line?
 

Failed Unit

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The other thing is would the FA have changed thier mind anyway because of Liverpool area fans. If it was most other clubs in the UK it would be no problem. It is just unlucky Liverpool are in the final, but if it was Man U, Newcastle etc no problem. Let's say the FA did know about it and had the game the following weekend, another line would be the problem. Or if the had gone for the 1500KO it would be an all London final.

This is just "@!? happens.
 
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