Arriva Trains Wales Query

[Michael.Y]

Here's a possibility:

1) Arriva/DB win the GW franchise
2) Electrification of GWML and SWML to Cardiff
3) Several HST sets freed up by introduction of electric trains. Arriva Great Western shorten HSTs to 4/5 cars a la Grand Central to run between Cardiff and Swansea.
4) Arriva Great Western cascade remaining HSTs to Arriva Trains Wales for similar services to Manchester and Holyhead.
5) Freed up 175s cascade to replace 158s and 150s
6) Freed up Sprinters cascade to replace Pacers
7) Arriva lose Welsh franchise.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Not quite - I'm a large individual 6'3" and pushing 20 stone since my rugby playing days are over due to a knee injury I've put on a bit of weight as I don't exercise as much as i use to. i tend to be stuck to desk or sat on a train for hours on end these days.

The molded arm rests of the ATW MK2's are not of a very generous dimension width wise I actually prefer the seats on a 175 = there's more space as you can move the arm rests out the way same goes for the refurbished 158's.

Sat on FGW MK3 "airline" seat last week bloody awful barely got legs in and the high seat backs ... aaargh though the young lady of about 5'4" opposite me fitted quite well and was busy building a bag barrier on the isle seat.

I can see where you are coming from, as age creeps up and takes it's toll on the body I have been known, in an absent minded way, to try and lift up the arm rest on a mk 2 in order to leave my seat.....however this to me is probably the only 'down' side!
I have never been in a FGW HST, but having peered through the windows in Cardiff & Newport I really do not like the seating arrangements, don't like airline style seating for reading/laptop or comfort (dodgy knees) and so I'll always head for a table in any coach, and obviously plenty of choice in a mk 2....
....having said that, it is a persomal preference & I do understand the realities of the situation in relation to 'packing them in'. There is a view that most passengers don't mind seating arrangements, but it's funny how the table seats always seem to 'go' first!

 

[Rhydgaled]

There'll soon be plenty of stock cascaded by electrification which will be newer, better and cheaper to refurbish (if required) than the Mark 2s.

Not soon enough, unless some stock will be freed up by the end of 2013 (I think a very light refurbishment on the mark2s, just enough to make them safe and about all their short remainly life could possibly justify, might be do-able by then). If we don't get some services in by the end of 2013, there's a chance the Swansea district line could go the same way as Cockett - Duffryn and Wrexham - Chester went years ago (both now should be reversed at last).

Wanting to rebuild a 1960s locomotive, "to make it modern", rather than buying a new Eurolight etc, is a bit like buying a second hand Morris Marina and putting a new engine in it, rather than just getting a new Ford Focus.

Might be cheaper than buying the Focus though. In the class 47 vs eurolight case, we don't know what a eurolight would look like but the 47 is better looking than most recent stuff.

It is not thought which is the issue. It's throwing huge amounts of money at obsolete rolling stock.

Which is why you can't fit power doors or other accessibility mods, and why I'm trying to avoid needing the DBSOs - gotta keep the cost down. Mark2s are better than 150s for long distance trains any day. Better to know which train is inaccessible (with LHCS marked in a timetable) than having 150s randomly replacing 175s and 158s whenever ATW are short of regional express units (which is nearly all the time).

Here's a possibility:

1) Arriva/DB win the GW franchise
2) Electrification of GWML and SWML to Cardiff
3) Several HST sets freed up by introduction of electric trains. Arriva Great Western shorten HSTs to 4/5 cars a la Grand Central to run between Cardiff and Swansea.
4) Arriva Great Western cascade remaining HSTs to Arriva Trains Wales for similar services to Manchester and Holyhead.
5) Freed up 175s cascade to replace 158s and 150s
6) Freed up Sprinters cascade to replace Pacers
7) Arriva lose Welsh franchise.

No replacing 158s with 175s please, except for cascading 158s to other regional express services in Wales. I like the idea of shortened IC125s on Manchesters though, could the class 43s be re-geared for 100mph max and better acceleration, perhaps replace the other 43 with a mark3 DVT too. A Cardiff - Swansea shuttle is no good though, need wires to Swansea and direct Londons, you could use a 2+5-7 IC125 as a connecting service from CDF/SWA to Carmarthen/Pembroke though.

 

[Michael.Y]

No replacing 158s with 175s please, except for cascading 158s to other regional express services in Wales.

I like the idea of shortened IC125s on Manchesters though, could the class 43s be re-geared for 100mph max and better acceleration, perhaps replace the other 43 with a mark3 DVT too. A Cardiff - Swansea shuttle is no good though, need wires to Swansea and direct Londons, you could use a 2+5-7 IC125 as a connecting service from CDF/SWA to Carmarthen/Pembroke though.

So not only are you in favour of reintroducing obsolete awkward-to-use stock, you're also in favour of not replacing 25 year old trains with more recent stock? What's wrong with 175s?

My idea for HSTs on the Marches would be coupled with upgraded signalling and track conditions allowing 100+ running on the Marches line, with Cardiff-Manchester services being expresses calling at Newport, Hereford, Ludlow, Shrewsbury, Crewe and Stockport.

Direct Swansea-Londons will be served by the bi-mode Intercity Express. However, until electrification goes west of Cardiff, the Swansea/Neath/PT/Bridgend/Cardiff shuttle will complement the IEP by linking up with GW PAD-CDF services which terminate at CDF with the usual Swanline service toddling along inbetween.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It's the "high density" spacing that's the issue on FGW, not the seat themselves as such.

theirs more of the bloody things crammed in a FGW Mk3 than on a ATW 158 hence the ATW seats don't feel as bad as there's more leg room and you get better views out the window.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So not only are you in favour of reintroducing obsolete awkward-to-use stock, you're also in favour of not replacing 25 year old trains with more recent stock? What's wrong with 175s?

My idea for HSTs on the Marches would be coupled with upgraded signalling and track conditions allowing 100+ running on the Marches line, with Cardiff-Manchester services being expresses calling at Newport, Hereford, Ludlow, Shrewsbury, Crewe and Stockport.

Direct Swansea-Londons will be served by the bi-mode Intercity Express. However, until electrification goes west of Cardiff, the Swansea/Neath/PT/Bridgend/Cardiff shuttle will complement the IEP by linking up with GW PAD-CDF services which terminate at CDF with the usual Swanline service toddling along inbetween.

Would your express diagram HST on Marches be hourly or 2 hrly?
Sounds like you'll need a fill in local service south of Crewe as well.

 

[jones_bangor]

Might be cheaper than buying the Focus though. In the class 47 vs eurolight case, we don't know what a eurolight would look like but the 47 is better looking than most recent stuff.

I think the 57 experience says it all, an engine that Arriva daren't shut down in case it didn't start up again the next morning!!

There's lots of Eurolight pictures on the web, they're similar to the 67s in many respects.

 

[Michael.Y]

theirs more of the bloody things crammed in a FGW Mk3 than on a ATW 158 hence the ATW seats don't feel as bad as there's more leg room and you get better views out the window.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Would your express diagram HST on Marches be hourly or 2 hrly?
Sounds like you'll need a fill in local service south of Crewe as well.

I'd extend the Chester-Crewe shuttle to Shrewsbury.

 

[Penmorfa]

Which is why you can't fit power doors or other accessibility mods, and why I'm trying to avoid needing the DBSOs - gotta keep the cost down. Mark2s are better than 150s for long distance trains any day. Better to know which train is inaccessible (with LHCS marked in a timetable) than having 150s randomly replacing 175s and 158s whenever ATW are short of regional express units (which is nearly all the time).

I keep reading about all these 150's replacing 158 and 175 units 'on a daily basis'. This is'nt my experience in North Wales. The last 150 I saw, apart from the Conwy valley unit, was on Easter monday when one was used to strengthen a 158. I have'nt seen a 153 here this year. As three units are outbased in Chester, perhaps what people are seeing are units going to/from Canton for maintenance?

Does making more use of the Swansea District line appear in any official plans for the future? Or is it just on your wish list? It just seems a bit odd to have trains avoiding the second biggest place in Wales.

 

[Rhydgaled]

So not only are you in favour of reintroducing obsolete awkward-to-use stock, you're also in favour of not replacing 25 year old trains with more recent stock? What's wrong with 175s?

I'm not in favor of replacing 158s with 175s if it means Wales loses the 158s. However, if you obtain the 175s by replacing them with suitable stock (eg. IC125s or push-pull mark 3s), I'm ok with 175s replacing 158s IF:

• The 158s stay in Wales, and on long-distance (prefrably limited stop) services and
• You will not have 175s working in multiple, unless
  • it is for the entire length of the journey (no portion working)
  • there is a catering trolley and revenue protection staff in all units
  • at least one door of each unit will be able to open at each station served

My idea for HSTs on the Marches would be coupled with upgraded signalling and track conditions allowing 100+ running on the Marches line, with Cardiff-Manchester services being expresses calling at Newport, Hereford, Ludlow, Shrewsbury, Crewe and Stockport.

Direct Swansea-Londons will be served by the bi-mode Intercity Express. However, until electrification goes west of Cardiff, the Swansea/Neath/PT/Bridgend/Cardiff shuttle will complement the IEP by linking up with GW PAD-CDF services which terminate at CDF with the usual Swanline service toddling along inbetween.

I think electrification between Swansea and Cardiff is probably more likely than speeds of over 100mph on the marches line.

I think the 57 experience says it all, an engine that Arriva daren't shut down in case it didn't start up again the next morning!!

But would you have that problem if the engines, and pretty much everything but the bodyshell, were BRAND NEW?

I keep reading about all these 150's replacing 158 and 175 units 'on a daily basis'. This is'nt my experience in North Wales. The last 150 I saw, apart from the Conwy valley unit, was on Easter monday when one was used to strengthen a 158. I have'nt seen a 153 here this year. As three units are outbased in Chester, perhaps what people are seeing are units going to/from Canton for maintenance?

I've not seen much evidence of that either, but with 175002 down at least one diagram must be something else and whenever a 175 fails there's not much else to cover for it. Regardless of that, with 20 158s needed on Cambrian curcuit from May 14th it looks as if one Saturday Manchester - Milford Haven diagram will be downgraded from 158 to 150, along with pretty much all other 158 services outside the Cambrian - Brimingham - Holyhead route.

Does making more use of the Swansea District line appear in any official plans for the future? Or is it just on your wish list? It just seems a bit odd to have trains avoiding the second biggest place in Wales.

Only mention of plans for the Swansea District Line I've seen from official sources is consideration of 'rationalisation' in the Wales RUS. I can't think of a better way of saving it from rationalisation than getting extra services over it. The railway from Cardiff to south-west Wales via Swansea is massivly outgunned by the M4. By cutting journey times, down to 1hr 22mins (a saving of about 15mins) before linespeed upgrades, using the Swansea district line is probably the only hope rail has of being time-competitive on the route.

It isn't just on my wish-list though, rail future advocated using it years back, and see the following quote posted as a comment here by Spad of Fishguard Trains.info

The Swansea District Line has been in our sights from the start. It is just as important for the future of Welsh public transport as the already-improved north-south services. Fishguard Trains plans a big push in the new year – first the Goodwick Station reopening, then the Swansea DIstrict Line campaign is the plan.
Commenters have already contributed valuable knowledge and suggestions about the line, past, present and future. Keep your thoughts coming, and we’ll move the campaign to the top of the agenda in 2012.

 

[anthony263]

I'd extend the Chester-Crewe shuttle to Shrewsbury.

Yes and perhaps a further extension to Swansea via the Heart of wales line if the number of trains via the heart of wales line is increased.

 

[merlodlliw]

I keep reading about all these 150's replacing 158 and 175 units 'on a daily basis'. This is'nt my experience in North Wales. The last 150 I saw, apart from the Conwy valley unit, was on Easter monday when one was used to strengthen a 158. I have'nt seen a 153 here this year. As three units are outbased in Chester, perhaps what people are seeing are units going to/from Canton for maintenance?

Does making more use of the Swansea District line appear in any official plans for the future? Or is it just on your wish list? It just seems a bit odd to have trains avoiding the second biggest place in Wales.

150s were on the Holyhead Cardiff run yesterday afternoon, put a pax on it going to Shrewsbury.

 

[junglejames]

It is not thought which is the issue. It's throwing huge amounts of money at obsolete rolling stock. There is no money - it is'nt going to happen.

Your comments about fingernails are just too childish to respond to.

Fingernails comment was meant sarcastically because of the comments about opening doors.
Im not on about splashing huge sums of money at Mk2s, as its only temporary until more suitable stock can be found. As has been said before, if you can find anything better, right now, then brilliant. But you will struggle.

However, as i have also said. I know this wont happen. Just saying it should.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So not only are you in favour of reintroducing obsolete awkward-to-use stock, you're also in favour of not replacing 25 year old trains with more recent stock? What's wrong with 175s?

My idea for HSTs on the Marches would be coupled with upgraded signalling and track conditions allowing 100+ running on the Marches line, with Cardiff-Manchester services being expresses calling at Newport, Hereford, Ludlow, Shrewsbury, Crewe and Stockport.

Direct Swansea-Londons will be served by the bi-mode Intercity Express. However, until electrification goes west of Cardiff, the Swansea/Neath/PT/Bridgend/Cardiff shuttle will complement the IEP by linking up with GW PAD-CDF services which terminate at CDF with the usual Swanline service toddling along inbetween.

It doesnt matter whether something is 25yrs old, or 5yrs old. It just matters whats best for the job. Anyway, you cant moan about the suggestion of not replacing 158s with 175s, when you advocate replacing 175s with even older stock

The idea of Mk2s for the short to medium term is a hell of a lot cheaper, more sensible and easier than some of the things mentioned in your post:
IEP Bi mode
HST shuttles between Cardiff and Swansea (I will let you tell everyone why their stopping services have slowed down)
Complete upgrade of signalling and track to speed the Marches up to at least 100mph.
You talk about obsolete Mk2s. Yet we see Mk3s replacing 175s in 5yrs time.

Note: I have no problem with Mk2s or Mk3s. Just pointing out that if Mk2s are obsolete now, what are Mk3s in 5yrs time?

 

[tbtc]

Does making more use of the Swansea District line appear in any official plans for the future? Or is it just on your wish list? It just seems a bit odd to have trains avoiding the second biggest place in Wales.

This is one I thing I have doubts about too.

Despite the significant improvements on "rural" routes in Wales, the Cardiff - Swansea service still has around the same number seats an hour as it did at privatisation (compared to the almost tenfold increase in Holyhead - Cardiff, the forthcoming doubling of the Cambrian, the reinstated services to Fishguard...).

Running services via the District line means missing out on the Cardiff - Swansea trade and also the Swansea - West Wales trade. Yes, it'd save a few minutes, but then so would avoiding Birmingham on XC services.

 

[Rhydgaled]

This is one I thing I have doubts about too.

Despite the significant improvements on "rural" routes in Wales, the Cardiff - Swansea service still has around the same number seats an hour as it did at privatisation (compared to the almost tenfold increase in Holyhead - Cardiff, the forthcoming doubling of the Cambrian, the reinstated services to Fishguard...).

Running services via the District line means missing out on the Cardiff - Swansea trade and also the Swansea - West Wales trade. Yes, it'd save a few minutes, but then so would avoiding Birmingham on XC services.

It is seperate markets. Pembrokeshire - Swansea works as a stand alone service, and there should be no question of reducing that frequency (in fact, once we have express Cardiff services, increasing SWA - Carmarthen to 2tph should be done). In the survey done a few years ago in the Fishguard area, the majority surveyed wanted to go to Cardiff or London, and Bristol was as popular a destonation as Carmarthen. By sending all Pembrokeshire trains via Swansea, you are losing some of the (larger) market to Cardiff to the roads, and even more of the market for travel into England.

In the long-run, I think there should be an hourly service over the Swansea district line to try and capture some of the south-west-Wales to England/Cardiff market and (as said above) half-hourly south-west-Wales to Swansea trains. IF (and only if) there was a hourly express service over the Swansea district line, you may be able to have all trains (except the London - Carmarthen/Pembs services) arriving at Swansea terminate there. East from Swansea, I think there should be an hourly Swanline, the current hourly Manchesters and Londons, plus an hourly semi-fast (Neath, Port Talbot, Pyle, Bridgend, Cardiff) to Bristol (replacing the Cardiff - Tauntons between Cardiff and Bristol). That's the long-run though, for now I just want the current capability of the SDL preserved. To help with that I had an idea for a single 158 working a 07:56 FGH - CDF, 10:57 CDF - FGH, 13:30 FGH - CDF and 17:54 CDF - FGH. These would have all been over the SDL with the only calling points east of Carmarthen being Llanelli, Port Talbot, Bridgend and of course Cardiff and the 158 would have been obtained by getting the DVTs onto WAG2 and using that 175 to kick a 150 off the franchised Holyhead - Cardiffs with that 150 kicking a 158 off Maesteg.

However, now that the Cambrian curciut is going to swallow up all the 158s I think getting the mark2s in service is the only way of finding a suitable train to run that diagram. No matter what you say about the mark2s, they are more suitable for regional express work than a suburban unit (class 150).

 

[The Informer]

I keep reading about all these 150's replacing 158 and 175 units 'on a daily basis'. This is'nt my experience in North Wales. The last 150 I saw, apart from the Conwy valley unit, was on Easter monday when one was used to strengthen a 158. I have'nt seen a 153 here this year. As three units are outbased in Chester, perhaps what people are seeing are units going to/from Canton for maintenance?

Does making more use of the Swansea District line appear in any official plans for the future? Or is it just on your wish list? It just seems a bit odd to have trains avoiding the second biggest place in Wales.

150 on CDF to HHD today, passed through Chirk.
We should start a "spot the 150 out of its comfort zone" thread!

 

[anthony263]

150 on CDF to HHD today, passed through Chirk.
We should start a "spot the 150 out of its comfort zone" thread!

Now that you have said that I am going to se how long it takes for such a thread to appear and how long it takes before someone starts bashing pacers

 

[Gareth Marston]

I keep reading about all these 150's replacing 158 and 175 units 'on a daily basis'. This is'nt my experience in North Wales. The last 150 I saw, apart from the Conwy valley unit, was on Easter monday when one was used to strengthen a 158. I have'nt seen a 153 here this year. As three units are outbased in Chester, perhaps what people are seeing are units going to/from Canton for maintenance?

Does making more use of the Swansea District line appear in any official plans for the future? Or is it just on your wish list? It just seems a bit odd to have trains avoiding the second biggest place in Wales.

When you get 150's on CDF-HHD diagrams they swap them over with a 175 off the shed at Chester hence why there not seen along North Wales coast.

 

[Penmorfa]

Now that you have said that I am going to se how long it takes for such a thread to appear and how long it takes before someone starts bashing pacers

Give me a hammer and i'll happily bash the first one to appear in North Wales

I had 150204 Buxton to Man Picc and 150 225 Man Vic - Stalybridge today (off topic)

 

[Michael.Y]

I'll have you know one of my beloved 150s made it all the way to HHD and back without so much as a whimper the other week. It was the troublesome 158 on the back that caused the issue!

 

[Penmorfa]

When you get 150's on CDF-HHD diagrams they swap them over with a 175 off the shed at Chester hence why there not seen along North Wales coast.

It is very rare that Chester depot has a 175 standing by for an unscheduled unit swap. I also hardly ever see a 175 on a 158 diagram. What I see, day in day out, is what is booked.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'll have you know one of my beloved 150s made it all the way to HHD and back without so much as a whimper the other week. It was the troublesome 158 on the back that caused the issue!

That would be the strengthened set I saw on easter Monday presumably?

 

[87015]

It is very rare that Chester depot has a 175 standing by for an unscheduled unit swap. I also hardly ever see a 175 on a 158 diagram. What I see, day in day out, is what is booked.

150278 worked Cardiff-Holyhead-Crewe-Holyhead-Cardiff earlier this week but 150 'vice' seems more common on Cardiff-Manchester for whatever reasons.

 

[Penmorfa]

Only mention of plans for the Swansea District Line I've seen from official sources is consideration of 'rationalisation' in the Wales RUS. I can't think of a better way of saving it from rationalisation than getting extra services over it. The railway from Cardiff to south-west Wales via Swansea is massivly outgunned by the M4. By cutting journey times, down to 1hr 22mins (a saving of about 15mins) before linespeed upgrades, using the Swansea district line is probably the only hope rail has of being time-competitive on the route.

It would appear that singling the district line is part of the trade off for doubling over the Loughor viaduct. It's highly unlikely that you could convince ATW and Network Rail to approach the WAG with the begging bowl to keep double track. In any case how long would the single track section be?

 

[Rhydgaled]

It would appear that singling the district line is part of the trade off for doubling over the Loughor viaduct. It's highly unlikely that you could convince ATW and Network Rail to approach the WAG with the begging bowl to keep double track. In any case how long would the single track section be?

Yes, rationalisation is linked to the redoubling through Gowerton, which is why I'm so keen to get the SDL used ASAP. Waiting for more 158s to come in 2015/16 will likely be too late, we need to get some LHCS into service.

Do you know that the 'rationalisation' of SDL would take the form of singling? If so, you know more than me, please tell. Whether 'rationalisation' takes the form of reduced linespeed, longer signaling headways or single-tracking, it is not acceptable as it would mean the M4's total victory over rail for travel from south-west Wales to England will be complete.

 

[Penmorfa]

Yes, rationalisation is linked to the redoubling through Gowerton, which is why I'm so keen to get the SDL used ASAP. Waiting for more 158s to come in 2015/16 will likely be too late, we need to get some LHCS into service.

Do you know that the 'rationalisation' of SDL would take the form of singling? If so, you know more than me, please tell. Whether 'rationalisation' takes the form of reduced linespeed, longer signaling headways or single-tracking, it is not acceptable as it would mean the M4's total victory over rail for travel from south-west Wales to England will be complete.

You're the one who mentioned rationalisation. The Swansea district line is double track, welded rail and colour light signalled. It is open 24/7. I can't see any significant rationalisation unless major relaying is needed.

If the M4's 'victory' is complete then all those trains from Carmarthen to Manchester will be withdrawn soon then? Not much point keeping them is there?

 

[Rhydgaled]

You're the one who mentioned rationalisation. The Swansea district line is double track, welded rail and colour light signalled. It is open 24/7. I can't see any significant rationalisation unless major relaying is needed.

The RUS says they are considering rationalisation once Gowerton redouble is done. That's all I know, but it is enough to worry me.

If the M4's 'victory' is complete then all those trains from Carmarthen to Manchester will be withdrawn soon then? Not much point keeping them is there?

Doesn't matter, they will still be used to from the west to Swansea, and others will use it from Gowerton or Swansea to Cardiff/Bridgend/Hereford/Shrewsbury/Newport/Manchester. Apart from passengers who don't care much about journey time, alot of passengers for England from west of Llanelli will probably drive because it is so very much quicker, perhaps just to Port Talbot Parkway depending on where they are headed. As I said, Pembrokeshire to Swansea and Pembrokeshire to Cardiff are seperate markets. For Pembrokeshire to Swansea rail doesn't do particular badly, Pembrokeshire to England competes with the M4, and the M4 wins hands down.

 

[tbtc]

Pembrokeshire to England competes with the M4, and the M4 wins hands down

But is it a big enough market to warrant separate trains (and not just part of the existing routes that also serve Swansea)?

A friend from school lives in Broadhaven, so I've used the services as far as Haverfordwest in the past, but I seemed to be in the minority of longer distance passengers (almost everyone else boarded/ unboarded at Swansea)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes, rationalisation is linked to the redoubling through Gowerton, which is why I'm so keen to get the SDL used ASAP. Waiting for more 158s to come in 2015/16 will likely be too late, we need to get some LHCS into service.

Why would you need the SDL for passenger trains after Loughor redoubling?
Surely trains that miss Swansea terminus can be routed via the avoiding line at Landore?
They would then benefit from the higher line speed on the main line.
The SDL is about 1 mile shorter but is very slow in places (I admit it's an interesting ride).

 

[Rhydgaled]

I've used the services as far as Haverfordwest in the past, but I seemed to be in the minority of longer distance passengers (almost everyone else boarded/ unboarded at Swansea)

Precisely my point, going to Carmarthen from Cardiff via Swansea is so slow that most passengers you see at Swansea on the Manchester - Milford/Carmarthen trains are getting on or off there. I assume the service as it is is justified, and there probably aren't many passengers who travel through Swansea.

According to a survey I've seen, there's more demand for travel from Pembrokeshire to Cardiff and England than to Swansea, if rail could capture that market you should be able to justify some extra trains without Swansea stops, given that the (smaller) Pembrokeshire to Swansea market sustains the current Swansea services. A Swansea district line service wouldn't need a 4-car LHCS rake though, a single 158 would be plenty to start with, which is why putting the LHCS on Manchesters would be more sensible aside from the LHCS lacking an accessible toilet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why would you need the SDL for passenger trains after Loughor redoubling? Surely trains that miss Swansea terminus can be routed via the avoiding line at Landore? They would then benefit from the higher line speed on the main line. The SDL is about 1 mile shorter but is very slow in places (I admit it's an interesting ride).

The SDL might have fairly slow linespeeds now, but has more potential for linespeed upgrades in future and even in it's current state is 15mins quicker than via Swansea. Using the Landore avoiding line would only save the 5min reversal time in Swansea station, not nearlly enough to catch up with the cars on the M4. If you are going to miss out Swansea, you might as well use the SDL for a 15min saving, with potential for even more savings later when some money is available to increase SDL linespeeds.

 

[anthony263]

I do think we need the Swansea district line and yes I think it can justify an hourly service especially if stations at built at Morriston and Llandarcy with car parks for Park & ride and easy acess to the DVLA, Morriston Hospital, the Enterprise Park and the Swansea Valley.

This could help take some traffic off the M4 and with the new housing developments around LLandracy could save some problems on local roads especially if there are good local bus services serving the stations.

There are a fair number of speed restrictions on the Swansea district line which could be removed with a bit of work especially over that Bridge near Neath Abbey, without the speed restrictions you can do Llanelli - Port Talbot Parkway non stop in 28/29 minutes or 32 minutes with a stop at Morriston and if you are using a class 158 or 175 which have a top speed of 90-100mph and in the case of the 175's have very good accerleration

 

[Rhydgaled]

I do think we need the Swansea district line and yes I think it can justify an hourly service especially if stations at built at Morriston and Llandarcy with car parks for Park & ride and easy acess to the DVLA, Morriston Hospital, the Enterprise Park and the Swansea Valley.

Stopping at those stations would let the M4 surge ahead again. I think they should be openned for trains/trams from the likes of Gwaun-Cae-Gurwen to Swansea docks though.

There are a fair number of speed restrictions on the Swansea district line which could be removed with a bit of work especially over that Bridge near Neath Abbey, without the speed restrictions you can do Llanelli - Port Talbot Parkway non stop in 28/29 minutes

Wrong, without speed restrictions would be even faster. Look at tommorow (Sat 21st April 2012) on East Coast journey planner for trains from Port Talbot Parkway to Llanelli avoiding Swansea with no changes and you'll see it can be done in 29 minutes already. Take away those speed restrictions, as you suggest, and Cardiff - Llanelli could fall some way less than an hour, even less if you make parts of the district line 90mph.