Please Get Rid of the Safety Screen !

[Schnellzug]

How many times have you seen people read the safety notices on trains? Very few I'd wager. How many of the rest would know what to do in an emergency? Or where to find the emergency equipment?

The screens may just be telling people what they already know, but it is the place where most people will see it.

but the screens on Stations don't tell you any of that, do they? The automated announcements on Trains only say "Safety information is displayed in all carriages"*, in any case, so you've really just got an automated Announcement telling you to look at Notices, which is really just aural clutter.

*On SWT, at any rate, for some reason Ms. Unfeasibly Posh emphasises "all carriages", not just some of them.

 

[michael769]

This seems like a good time to bring up the HSE's position on safety signage..

http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/dec07.pdf

 

[hairyhandedfool]

My point is that if the information on the departure screens was left as a poster, few people would read it.

 

[Clip]

Very good point HHF. From my experience people wont even bother to read posters telling them about engineering works so why should they read safety posters?

It is also worth pointing out that these screens are customer INFORMATION screens and as such we like to display INFORMATION that we would like our customers to take notice of thankyou very much.

 

[jon0844]

I'm sure people look at the screens more than they do posters so it seems an ideal place to put the safety notices. People then dont have the excuse of not seeing them.

If you cant spare 40 or 50 seconds then maybe you are cutting it too fine.

The new screens at King's Cross by each platform only show the train destination, time and stopping pattern. Much better, although I agree that safety notices (or even information about penalty fares perhaps) could be useful - so maybe the screens should have had an extra line or two to show that at the same time as scrolling information? Ditto for showing things like engineering work, bus replacements or even a way to relay information during disruption.

Otherwise, static posters are probably fine for the safety stuff - along with Atos Anne saying things every now and then.

The LCD displays further along platforms 9-11 still seem to scroll through multiple pages of rather small text that a lot of people may struggle to see (small font - plenty of room for larger text). They do seem to take ages to change, so sparing 40-50 seconds is being extremely generous!

 

[D1009]

It is also worth pointing out that these screens are customer INFORMATION screens and as such we like to display INFORMATION that we would like our customers to take notice of thankyou very much.

So it's more important that the screens show the INFORMATION that "we" would like our customers to take notice of than the INFORMATION that the customers want to know themselves ?

 

[Clip]

So it's more important that the screens show the INFORMATION that "we" would like our customers to take notice of than the INFORMATION that the customers want to know themselves ?

Its all as equally as important as anything else. Though they shouldn't have safety information on there for too long - if they do tell them.

As has been alluded to in this thread already we need to be seen to be reducing our liabilities and this is the best way given that people dont bother to read posters.

 

[D1009]

Its all as equally as important as anything else. Though they shouldn't have safety information on there for too long - if they do tell them.

As has been alluded to in this thread already we need to be seen to be reducing our liabilities and this is the best way given that people dont bother to read posters.

I disagree, I think this thread is about customer focus. People lead busy lives nowadays, and the most important thing a customer wants to know when they arrive at a station is the expected departure time and platform of their next train. At many places you have to wait to find out this information, due to the screens scrolling through pages of other information, and (particularly if there is any kind of disruption) people can be delayed totally unnecessarily as a result of missing trains.

 

[jon0844]

Given we've got huge plasma screens for outdoor advertising, I wonder if there's an argument to having some of these used for railway information. You could then have animated warnings about not having a ticket, security risks etc.

I think you need to keep the screens with train information exclusively for relaying this information - as people are invariably in a rush, even if not to actually get the train but simply find out what platform and then grab a coffee, something to eat, go to the toilet, gather the family together or say goodbye.

I have been frustrated as I wait for page 1 to come around and tell me if the train stops where I need to go, so I can't be the only one.

If a separate display relaying information was installed below, that would work just fine.

 

[moonrakerz]

............. we need to be seen to be reducing our liabilities................

Ah................ the truth at last !

 

[table38]

How long before someone works out they could make money by putting advertising videos on the screen too

 

[Schnellzug]

Very good point HHF. From my experience people wont even bother to read posters telling them about engineering works so why should they read safety posters?

It is also worth pointing out that these screens are customer INFORMATION screens and as such we like to display INFORMATION that we would like our customers to take notice of thankyou very much.

One might perhaps suggest that if Companies did wish people to take notice of the Notices, they didn't clutter them up with superfluous flannel ... it's just counterproductive. No one takes any notice of "Please note that smoking is not permitted.." or any announcements prefixed with "May we have your attention please", so therefore they don't listen when announcements come on, and may therefore miss something that is important.

 

[D1009]

...and may therefore miss something that is important.

As per the HSE point in post #32.

 

[table38]

If this safety information is so vital, why not print all the safety information on another ticket coupon.

You could mark it as a "2-PART" (or "3-PART" if there is an advance or seat reservation), then mark the ticket "valid only with H&S notice" so that people have to take it with them when they travel.

That way, passengers would always have all of this vital safety information with them at all times.

After all, if they already know their platform, surely there is a chance they will not look at the departure screens and miss this vital safety information?

:insert-sarcastic-smiley:

 

[michael769]

As has been alluded to in this thread already we need to be seen to be reducing our liabilities and this is the best way given that people dont bother to read posters.

Only in the minds of people who charge lots of money to give out dubious advice that provides their client with no benefit whatsoever.

If a hazard is one that folks encounter in their normal daily advice (like a wet floor being slippy) they don't need to be told about it - the courts don't give out compensation for stupidity. If the hazard goes beyond that then no notice will protect them. The courts will expect that the hazard is dealt with properly either by rectification or exclusion.

Notices are really only appropriate in non public arenas (like workplaces) where a hazard that goes beyond peoples normal life experience exists - but where it is not practicable or possible to remove the hazard - and in such circumstances it is expected that folks who do not need to be exposed to the hazard are excluded from it - hence why the most commonly used appropriate warning sign is "Keep out!".

Degrading the usability of information screens by posting extraneous non-information that does noting to meet the passenger's needs is simply poor customer service by an industry whose managers and consultants prefer to put its customers last.

 

[table38]

Only in the minds of people who charge lots of money to give out dubious advice that provides their client with no benefit whatsoever.

If I were more cynical, I might think these H&S professionals might be trying to justify their jobs and six-figure salaries by ever-so-slightly exaggerating the risk...

Actually I'm all in favour, as it's such a nuisance having to step over the many littered carcasses of those unfortunates who didn't read the safety notices

 

[Clip]

Look, I was going to post an answer to each of you who have quoted me but I cant be bothered. Do you work in the industry in a customer focused station role? If so then you will know exactly what im on about and you wouldnt have replied. IF not then please, shh.

Big announcements at stations over the tannoy about not running when its wet and posters stating the same - people run then slip then try and make a claim against who runs the station.

And so many other examples you wouldnt believe(cos you dont work in the industry) However, if we can demonstrate that we have tried our best to inform you of any risks and pointed out that some things(like smoking you are breaking the law) where you may fall foul by not taking notice then we have satisfied our obligations to you, our passengers.

That doesnt matter though because we still have spurious claims made against us by people saying they didnt know and such like ad this all costs time and money which really would be better spent elsewhere.

But dont worry about that you lot, the railway is a bottomless pit of money isnt it where you can chat about whats wrong with it all and make fantasy threads without having a clue as to what it takes to make sure things run as best they can.

But thats ok what we'll do is remove safety and information notices from the CIS and then tell our backroom people to prepare for the onslaught of claims from everyone. Enjoy your 10% fare rises wont you.

 

[GB]

I'm sure there was a thread not that long ago about some people complaining about doors closing early and that this information was not easily found. Seems the railway can't win.

 

[table38]

But thats ok what we'll do is remove safety and information notices from the CIS and then tell our backroom people to prepare for the onslaught of claims from everyone. Enjoy your 10% fare rises wont you.

Well in that case I'm just off to:

(a) trip over the kerb in the station car park (no notices warning me the car park might be wet when its raining)
(b) fall off the platform onto the track (no notices warning me there's a 3 foot drop)
(c) stick my fingers in the electric fire in the toilets (no notices warning me it might be hot)

Where there's blame, there's a claim!

 

[EM2]

I'm with Clip.
The amount of CCTV I have to download for investigation of claims against us is ridiculous. And pretty much every time, there is a warning sign or poster or notice in place, or the log states that announcements were being made.

 

[Clip]

I'm sure there was a thread not that long ago about some people complaining about doors closing early and that this information was not easily found. Seems the railway can't win.

Indeed we cant. But lets not get that in the way of someone with a 50 second connection to make.

Well in that case I'm just off to:

(a) trip over the kerb in the station car park (no notices warning me the car park might be wet when its raining)
(b) fall off the platform onto the track (no notices warning me there's a 3 foot drop)
(c) stick my fingers in the electric fire in the toilets (no notices warning me it might be hot)

Where there's blame, there's a claim!

thats right, there is.

Some of you enthusiasts have no idea the amount of time and effort that goes into this sort of thing - you just automatically assume is H&S gone mad whilst you peruse the wonderful world wide web of railways.

Posters do not work in the main because the general travelling public are a bit thick. Only the other week my control room was overrun with calls from the helpline asking where their trains were even though we had posters up prominently at the entrance and the platforms informing passengers.

Ive said it before and ill say it again about enthusiasts on here who have no idea - If you could make the railway better then why the hell do you not work for it and do so from the top down.

I know its a hobby but please, unless you have any idea what goes on then please be quiet - our job is hard enough as it is without your two p's worths.

 

[table38]

Ive said it before and ill say it again about enthusiasts on here who have no idea - If you could make the railway better then why the hell do you not work for it and do so from the top down.

Because I get paid a lot more to do my current job.

Why do you assume that only people working on the railway could possibly have any idea about H&S issues, and the vast industry that has built up to feed off it?

 

[Schnellzug]

I'm with Clip.
The amount of CCTV I have to download for investigation of claims against us is ridiculous. And pretty much every time, there is a warning sign or poster or notice in place, or the log states that announcements were being made.

Surely that's all that's needed, just put up a poster, then you can say "well, there was a poster". Just don't clutter up everyone's ears by broadcasting it over the Tannoy or waste people's time waiting for something useful to scroll round on the screens.

 

[Clip]

Because I get paid a lot more to do my current job.

Why do you assume that only people working on the railway could possibly have any idea about H&S issues, and the vast industry that has built up to feed off it?

I never said we were did I? Or am I imagining it after reading through my posts again?

I am in no lofty tower yet by having to try and justify why we have the notices up shows that maybe some of you still dont understand just why we do what we do and why we place things in places we have to place them.

If you're aware of the furore surrounding H&S claims then you should well understand why we place the notices on screens as we do. As I said before - they are information screens so therefore we display information both train running and safety notices. Its not to difficult a thing to grasp is it?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I'm with Clip.
The amount of CCTV I have to download for investigation of claims against us is ridiculous. And pretty much every time, there is a warning sign or poster or notice in place, or the log states that announcements were being made.

I'm with Clip as well. Perhaps if table38 was aware of the sheer number of ridiculous personal injury claims then he/she would understand why the railways are so keen to broadcast safety messages. They are not for the benefit of passengers, they are to prevent the TOCs and Network Rail being sued.

(Of course, there are other notices where they have to display them prominently - like no smoking notices).

 

[Failed Unit]

I'm with Clip as well. Perhaps if table38 was aware of the sheer number of ridiculous personal injury claims then he/she would understand why the railways are so keen to broadcast safety messages. They are not for the benefit of passengers, they are to prevent the TOCs and Network Rail being sued.

(Of course, there are other notices where they have to display them prominently - like no smoking notices).

But as someonet that is also at the sharp end of the health and safety, I agree we are supposed to remove the hazard and provide notices if we don't but you are in a bit of a no-win situation. (Totally devils advocate)

It is raining, the monitors state be careful of the wet platform but arriving passengers don't see them as they are position for departing passengers to see (yes the also use the tannoy) but the person slips and falls as soon as they get off the train. Cue Ambulance chaser.

Still raining, be monitor is showing information about engineeering work, then safety then the train, it takes 40 seconds to get to the information about the train, the person runs to get it and slip. Cue ambulance chaser saying that if they would not have needed to run.

I work with high power components, back in the 70s you could touch these easily and die. Now they are covered. In the 70s you personally made sure you didn't touch them, now the less respect is paid to them. Sometime wrapping people in cotton wool makes things less safe (if you follow my warped logic). Is Glasgow Queen Street more dangerous than it was 20 years ago, nope, it you slipped running for a train you were an idiot back then, now it is Scotrails fault. But having notices stating the platform is wet does not help if the roof is leaking for an ambulance chaser.

 

[EM2]

Surely that's all that's needed, just put up a poster, then you can say "well, there was a poster". Just don't clutter up everyone's ears by broadcasting it over the Tannoy or waste people's time waiting for something useful to scroll round on the screens.

I said there is warning sign or poster or notice in place, or the log states that announcements were being made. Not and.
Posters and announcements can be for any number of reasons. There could be six posters and two announcements and each woill be for a different reason.
So, if there is an information message (either on the PA or screen), that's probably because it's not practical for it to be on a poster.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I work with high power components, back in the 70s you could touch these easily and die. Now they are covered. In the 70s you personally made sure you didn't touch them, now the less respect is paid to them. Sometime wrapping people in cotton wool makes things less safe (if you follow my warped logic). Is Glasgow Queen Street more dangerous than it was 20 years ago, nope, it you slipped running for a train you were an idiot back then, now it is Scotrails fault. But having notices stating the platform is wet does not help if the roof is leaking for an ambulance chaser.

I quite agree. But in the early 70's there weren't Conditional Fee Arrangements thus people were far less likely even to attempt a civil action unless they were extremely well off.

 

[michael769]

If I were more cynical, I might think these H&S professionals might be trying to justify their jobs and six-figure salaries by ever-so-slightly exaggerating the risk...

With so much of their "advice" being directly contrary to the HSE guidance (to such an extent they have set up a panel tasked to debunk such nonsense) it is tempting to agree with that view. More realistically I suspect they are fools promoted well above their abilities who really believe what they peddle.

The other favourite is to wheel out "H&S" as a spurious excuse to justify otherwise unjustifiable rules.

The risks of being sued are greatly overstated - most claims are settled to avoid bad publicity in the daily main than for any real fear that a court will uphold an obviously groundless claim. As I already mentioned notices are worthless. If you do not cause someone's mishap then you cannot be held to blame, if you did cause it no notice in the world will protect you.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

With so much of their "advice" being directly contrary to the HSE guidance (to such an extent they have set up a panel tasked to debunk such nonsense) it is tempting to agree with that view. More realistically I suspect they are fools promoted well above their abilities who really believe what they peddle.

The other favourite is to wheel out "H&S" as a spurious excuse to justify otherwise unjustifiable rules.

Certainly the second option (excuses) seems to be the popular option in schools nowadays. I can remember a lot of things being banned 'because of health and safety' - which was clearly rubbish, and some of which were even Myth of the Month!