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Has Anyone done the Far North Line ?

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+1. I've used it a few times in the last few years, when en route between Glasgow and Belfast. Stena Line's decision to decamp from Stranraer towards the mouth of Loch Ryan (to save fuel, pure and simple) has nearly killed the line. On the plus side, Friday and Sunday evening journeys are no longer enhanced by crowds of tanked up Ulster folk going to/from Celtic and Rangers games :D



Yep, back in June. Some videos here.

I do not understand (for the life of me) why they didn't build a rail terminus, at Loch Ryan? Not everyone has access to a car. The road (A75 I think - stand to be corrected) is not dual carriageway either. The bus journey from Ayr (which I have done ) is 2hrs 20 mins! Stranraer station is a shadow of its former self. The adverts for Sealink (remember them?) are still there .
 
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Tav77

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I haven't been off the beaten track in Northern Scotland for years, but, in the 70/80/90's you could get the Postbus from quite a few locations near railway stations and they'd take you right across the whole of the counties of Caithness, Sutherland and Ross & Cromarty, unfortunately, a lot of these services were cut back due to unprofitability, etc, so, you'd need to have a look on t'internet to see where you can still get to these days, but, they were always a very useful and cheaper solution to taxis.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

http://www.royalmail.com/you-home/your-community/postbus/routefinder
 

jamesontheroad

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I do not understand (for the life of me) why they didn't build a rail terminus, at Loch Ryan? Not everyone has access to a car. The road (A75 I think - stand to be corrected) is not dual carriageway either. The bus journey from Ayr (which I have done ) is 2hrs 20 mins! Stranraer station is a shadow of its former self. The adverts for Sealink (remember them?) are still there .

One reason: £££££££££

Stena have a record of trimming this route to save money. They moved the Belfast terminal about 1 mile out from the city centre, as close as possible to the end of the Port of Belfast, so as to save time and fuel on every turn in and out of Belfast. They've moved to Loch Ryan to save a similar distance on every trip in and out. They've also replaced the HSS fast ferries with normal ferries to save on fuel; cheekily marketing the new ships as offering a faster crossing, but only because they no longer go all the way to Stranraer!

The Sealink adverts also carry the old NIR logo - the one that looked like it was designed with a protractor, a ruler and a tin of paint :)
 
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One reason: £££££££££

Stena have a record of trimming this route to save money. They moved the Belfast terminal about 1 mile out from the city centre, as close as possible to the end of the Port of Belfast, so as to save time and fuel on every turn in and out of Belfast. They've moved to Loch Ryan to save a similar distance on every trip in and out. They've also replaced the HSS fast ferries with normal ferries to save on fuel; cheekily marketing the new ships as offering a faster crossing, but only because they no longer go all the way to Stranraer!

The Sealink adverts also carry the old NIR logo - the one that looked like it was designed with a protractor, a ruler and a tin of paint :)

Yes I noticed that - very amateurish:roll! Saving money and fuel still doesn't help, the non car drivers of this world! I would have thought, that a rail terminal would have been beneficial, freight wise too?
 

johnnychips

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Yes I noticed that - very amateurish:roll! Saving money and fuel still doesn't help, the non car drivers of this world! I would have thought, that a rail terminal would have been beneficial, freight wise too?

I would have thought that most non-car drivers would have defected to lo-cost airlines by now, rather than an endless journey to Stranraer and a gut-churning ferry.
 

junglejames

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You're better off driving to Altnabreac from the B870, south of Scotscalder, and taking the appropriate dirt track road as seen on Google Maps. This one looks well kept. In fact, the Street View camera car got 5 miles down the track.

This is the road I took. Turn right off the B870, then eventually bear right onto the dirt track. Unfortunately the dirt track isnt as good as it looks. I never even made it as far as the google cam has.
I could have made it, just, but it would have taken absolutely ages. As I said, 10mph is too fast.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK ok. Enough Stena bashing for one thread.
Perhaps if a few correct facts were put up to make things fair.
Stena have not been trimming the route to purely save money. They have been trying to compete with the shorter crossing offered by P&O. (Why no P&O bashing considering they have always been at Cairnryan?)
1- The HSS was losing money hand over fist. Yes it is the most amazing vessel we shall ever see, but it came at a price. Once people started moving to firms like ryanfail, it was difficult to keep going. Also, it was soon realised carrying freight on fast craft wasnt quite as beneficial as first thought.
2- Once they reduced the sailings on the HSS, they brought in an extra conventional vessel to increase the number of sailings. How is that trimming the route? It offered an increase in sailings.
3- The port in Belfast had to be moved to save some time. Even though the distance isnt that much, ships have to go very slow right up into Belfast. This saved over 15mins by moving the port, and also allowed for any expansion later on. It was also a lot of money to spend on something not guarenteed to work. Getting into the city is hardly anymore difficult than it was before.
4- The port in Loch Ryan had to be moved for a couple of reasons. Firstly, once again, to try and compete with P&O time wise. Secondly, to allow them to operate larger vesssels. To get down the channel to Stranraer again takes ages as vessels have to go very slow, and it is impossible to get anything larger than the Cally and Navigator down there. They both needed replacing as they are getting on, but commercially it wasnt going to be worthwhile building brand new (small) vessels on a route which was losing money, and which had limited scope to make money due to the restrictions on the size of vessel. So what do you do? Either carry on losing money, and being uncompetitive compared to P&O when it came to freight (remember freight is the money spinner, and they like quick crossings), and eventually have to close the route when the head Office (Gothenburg) decided enough was enough. or, Move the terminal further up Loch Ryan, enabling journey times to be competitive (considering you are still going to Belfast compared to P&O going to Larne), and allowing yourself to purchase larger vessels. Thus giving you scope to earn more money, by carrying large amounts of freight. These larger vessels can probably carry more than twice as much freight as the Cally and Navigator.

5- Saving fuel? I highly doubt it. I think you will find these new vessels use more fuel than the older ones (except the HSS), even with the shorter crossing.
Also, it is once again a lot of money to spend on something not guarenteed to work. However Stena keep spending money to try and improve the route, in the hope of turning a profit. Many other companies would have cut back or closed the route by now. Something Stena havent done. They have a track record of spending lots of money on routes to keep improving them even when they arent making money. Something they should be congratulated for, especially as they are now reaping the rewards for this approach when the business as a whole is looked at.
6- The route has been improved. These new vessels carry more passengers, cars and freight. They offer more space for passengers in the accomodation, and the size has allowed them to offer much more in the way of facilities. The vessels also have the abilty to make up delays due to their high top speed (27 to 28 knots). Yes it is now inconvenient for footies, but you have to accept, footies do not make money and are very much in the minority. However despite this Stena have still provided transport for footies.
7- Ayr isnt perfect, but I suggest you get onto Mr Salmond and tell him to improve Girvan, or send a line to Cairnryan (something that wont happen). Stena have said Girvan was looked at for the buses, but facilities there were not good enough.
8- Gut churning ferry? I suggest you travel by ferry sometime in the future, instead of making things up when you obviously havent travelled by ferry.
8- The HSS wasnt viable any longer. It wasnt replaced just to save fuel. It was replaced as part of a much bigger change, to try and turn a profit and keep the route going (as already mentioned). However, im sure Stena will happily sell you the HSS so that you can try and make money with it. Good luck.
9- Out of all the things mentioned here about Stena, there is only one bit of truth mentioned. The fact they lied when they said crossings are now shorter. It is correct that the HSS offered quicker sailings from Stranraer.


So, just remember. Without the move to different terminals, this route would not have survived very long, as the future was bleak, and the move further up Loch Ryan has not saved fuel. The new vessels use more than the Cally and Navigator. What is has done is made the future a little rosier, and improved things for the passenger.
 

bailey65

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11 Dec 2011
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Back on topic the far north line needs investment like a bridge over the dornoch firth to cut journey times and track and infrastructure improvements like more passing loops to speed up journey times and increase services to compete with quicker car journeys on the superior A9.
The problem is thurso and wick haven't got 20,000 people between them and the wilderness between just a handful of people so it is surprising the line even survives north of dingwall let alone justifying millions of pounds of investment in a recession.
The only reason network rail keeps tiny stations on the line open is because of the legal costs of the closure procedure that's probably part of the reason the line is still going.
 
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MidnightFlyer

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It serves a good few people through regardless of actual populations - looking at the station figures, the top 5 (Wick, Thurso, Tain, Invergordon and Alness) take it well above 100,000, I would expect that that would pay it off. For many, especially those in remote areas, the railway may be their sole mode of transport (cannot drive for whatever reason, and buses and taxis are scarce), which they depend on. Then there's the staff you'd have to lay off (Wick on-train staff / any excess at Inverness), and I suspect millions it would cost to close and I suspect tear it up; as well as endless paperwork. The south end of the line is doing very well for itself, and numbers are increasing by thousands every year at the northern termini. I can see no case for closure, except for closure's sake.
 
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