Petition: Campaign for Equal Marriage

[Badger]

OK, don't take this offensively, but is this not perhaps because people these days lack subtily and go around rubbing their sexuality in other peoples faces and get their backs up about it?

Holy s* what? Are you serious? Of course I take it offensively. I just happened to "look gay".

If we had it your way according to this post, nobody would ever reveal anything about themselves for fear ofbeing apparently rightly punched.

I honestly can't stress how much I dislike that ideology, I'm sorry! (That being "rubbing x in other people's faces").

 

[Eagle]

Are there equal rights for the divorce as well?

Yes, the proposed change would make same- and opposite-sex marriages identical in every way. (Of course in the current system those in a civil partnership can file a divorce, just that it's called a dissolution instead.)

 

[Nym]

(Really should be working but...)

I have noticed that younger generations of the gay community (and this doesn't mean by age, this is refering to 'younger attitudes', I know many members of the LGBT with younger views than myself, partly because I see myself, as do many others within the local community, as a more senior member with regards to attitudes) tend to go around being overly sexual, and doing things in public that I don't deem acceptable for any couples, this does get peopoles back up, it gets my back up and anoys me when a couple can't put eachother down in a public place. There is a time and a place, and on a train, walking down Piccadilly, on the bus, etc. is not it. This isn't a time of sexual liberation where you can go around putting it about everywhere, we don't live in the mid-60s with free sexualisation for any sexualities. So we now have these young people who beleive it is tolerable to act in this manner, and this in turn, is very anoying. The cummulative effects of, "Put eachother down", "F***ing queers", "Bloddy furfags" etc. can lead to voilence much easyer than any singlar one of these thoughts.

So unlike the more 'older gays' that tend to keep themselves to themselves in public places they go around flaunting themselves (be them straight, gay, metro, pan, curious, **** etc.) and it is very irritating and makes it harder for the rest of us who just want to get on with our lives, by associating this hatrid of social rejection by their behavour that is unacceptable, it associates the 'senior gays' with this leud behaviour and therefore increases violent attacks on those who just want to get on with their lives.

Holding hands with my partner in the streets of anywere except in areas where socially acceptable is a given, let alone swapping saliva. So why is it, that 'younger generations' feel that this is acceptable, irrelevant of gender? This change toward overt sexualisation isn't helping!
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Just out of curiosity and this whole equal rights for marriage thing, what happens in the event that things go wrong after said 'marriage'. Are there equal rights for the divorce as well? Surely one cannot have the good without thinking of the bad.

Yes, it took about 4 weeks to get "Civil Partnership Desovment" adverts appearing in GT, AXM and Attitude....

 

[flymo]

Yes, the proposed change would make same- and opposite-sex marriages identical in every way. (Of course in the current system those in a civil partnership can file a divorce, just that it's called a dissolution instead.)

Thanks for the info.

 

[Badger]

How to you define "flaunting themselves"? I assume you mean well, I'm not really sure, but having sex in public is all I can think of. Kissing in public is socially acceptable for straight couples so why not for gay couples? Or is that not what you mean? If you mean people "shouldn't look gay" then I really disagree with that (mainly because I don't believe it's possible to actually look gay).

 

[AlterEgo]

(Really should be working but...)

I have noticed that younger generations of the gay community....tend to go around being overly sexual, and doing things in public that I don't deem acceptable for any couples, this does get peopoles back up, it gets my back up and anoys me when a couple can't put eachother down in a public place.

It's not just some gay people who "rub their sexuality in others' faces". Lots of straight people do it too!

So unlike the more 'older gays' that tend to keep themselves to themselves in public places they go around flaunting themselves (be them straight, gay, metro, pan, curious, **** etc.) and it is very irritating and makes it harder for the rest of us who just want to get on with our lives

Really? Is it that bad? If two gay people kissed each other in front of me I wouldn't bat an eyelid.

How does people being gay actually affect the quality of anyone's life? Why are you bothered? Why is anyone else bothered? If people are gay then who am I to stand in the way of them enjoying the same freedoms as anyone else?

 

[Nym]

How to you define "flaunting themselves"? I assume you mean well, I'm not really sure, but having sex in public is all I can think of. Kissing in public is socially acceptable for straight couples so why not for gay couples? Or is that not what you mean?

Kissing in public is socially acceptable yes, snogging eachothers faces off and looking like you're about to engage in sexual activity isn't, kiss doesn't extend to snog as socially acceptable.

Sex in public if anything is MORE socially acceptable for two men than a man and a woman, but that's the legacy of cottaging.

Anyway, I'm on about anything beyond a simple kiss as being socially unaceptable.
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It's not just some gay people who "rub their sexuality in others' faces". Lots of straight people do it too!

They do, and they **** me off too, anyone performing these kind of acts in public does.

Really? Is it that bad? If two gay people kissed each other in front of me I wouldn't bat an eyelid.

How does people being gay actually affect the quality of anyone's life? Why are you bothered? Why is anyone else bothered? If people are gay then who am I to stand in the way of them enjoying the same freedoms as anyone else?

If we had the answers to these I'm sure we could eradicate hate crime overnight.

 

[Badger]

Kissing in public is socially acceptable yes, snogging eachothers faces off and looking like you're about to engage in sexual activity isn't, kiss doesn't extend to snog as socially acceptable.

Sex in public if anything is MORE socially acceptable for two men than a man and a woman, but that's the legacy of cottaging.

Anyway, I'm on about anything beyond a simple kiss as being socially unaceptable.

I agree with this but I don't see it as cause for people to dislike gay people (since it's just the same when straight people do it). I don't think people who do this give gay people a bad name (or, shouldn't be), if the straight people who do it don't equally give straight people a bad name. If anything they just all give young people a bad name in general.

Or, rather, I don't think it's enough reason to explain why people get punched on the street for looking a bit queer.

 

[Temple Meads]

I've been punched, spat at, and had my hair pulled for "looking gay" (regardless of what my sexuality actually is). I'd be in a bad position to comment on whether it's worse than before, but it's definately still an issue.

I've had this problem personally, for the record I am straight, but there has been problems due my so called "gay" appearance (I have longish hair and that's it!), I have got into a few rows and fights due to this problem, and it drives me mad, I don't see what sexuality has to do with anything, and to discriminate based on that is the lowest of the low, and due to having a very short temper, I do worry that one day, I could get into a really serious confrontation about it (the fights mentioned above have been pretty docile to tell you the truth).

 

[district]

For the record Nym I was holding hands with my partner.
It is not fair that a straight couple kissing can not bat an eyelid with some people - who are HOMOPHOBES - but gay couples cannot.

 

[Nym]

For the record Nym I was holding hands with my partner.
It is not fair that a straight couple kissing can not bat an eyelid with some people - who are HOMOPHOBES - but gay couples cannot.

You're right, it's not fair...

 

[district]

You're right, it's not fair...

So, can you please define for me exactly where the line is then? For both heterosexuals and homosexuals? Don't try and tell me that realistically it is the same!

 

[Nym]

I'm dammed here whatever I say, no the line isn't the same, and yes I'm of the opinion of being more discreet is the way to go for homosexual couples...

Life isn't fair, get over it...

If you want to change things, there are many things going on that you can help with, crack on and help change things...

 

[Badger]

I'm sorry that I keep going on about your posts, I'm not trying to spur you on or anything. I post these questions to everyone therefore.

Life isn't fair, get over it...

I think it's our duty to make it fair. Life should be fair. When it's little things like this that are so simple to fix, why not make it fair?

discreet is the way to go for homosexual couples...

See this is "unfair" though. (Yes, I know, "life isn't fair"...)

I don't think homosexual couples should have to be discreet. They shouldn't have to feel that they're holding this big secret. Mainly, because, when the time comes to "come out" it makes it far, far more difficult (and yeah there are a lot of times when you have to... if only because otherwise you'd never find a partner!)

If everyone's discreet and hidden it's also easier for people to oppress. Take Russia for example, who are campaigning to ban the word gay being spoken, written, or thought about. If it doesn't exist then it doesn't matter if we do this to them, etc.

I agree that the world isn't fair, but I don't think we should just accept that. Did people in the apartheid just sit back and relax admitting, yeah life isn't fair? (I know, bad debating comparing things like that, but it came to mind).

- now I'm not saying people can't be discreet if they don't want to of course! Just that they don't have to be.

 

[LE Greys]

Let's be honest, some people will have a go at anyone who looks a bit different. Many of us have had to face it as school simply because of our interests - people using "trainspotter" as a term of abuse. I still get funny looks, because I dress a bit differently. That's simply because I reject a lot of modern culture, so I wear shirts with collars (tucked in), avoid visual labels like the plague and generally stay clear of modern materials. Some people don't like that. Nuts to them! Why should I care what they think? I'm just doing things the way I want to because I think it's the right way.

As for showing affection (to put it mildly) in public, it's a little offputting no matter who is involved, but is there any particular reason why not? Well, how about someone losing their temper in public? That sounds very Mediterranean (if we want to stereotype) but can I not make a gesture if (as happened yesterday) two buses go zooming past without stopping. All I did was point to the sign rather dramatically, and it upset people. Is that different? Well, yes, if it seems threatening. It wasn't intended to be, I was just annoyed.

 

[90019]

And not bricks, no. But there have been 3 incidents where I've had to call 999 and feared for mine and my partner's safety (West Mids and Kent) - these within the last 2 months.

Isn't it remarkable - I've never found myself in a situation where I've feared for my safety due to my sexuality.

Mind you, I practice that seemingly mystic art of subtlety in public, something that appears rather lacking in a lot of those of a similar age and younger than me.

 

[Nym]

*SNIP*
Mind you, I practice that seemingly mystic art of subtlety in public, something that appears rather lacking in a lot of those of a similar age and younger than me.

Thankyou!

 

[bnm]

I've had this problem personally, for the record I am straight, but there has been problems due my so called "gay" appearance (I have longish hair and that's it!), I have got into a few rows and fights due to this problem, and it drives me mad, I don't see what sexuality has to do with anything, and to discriminate based on that is the lowest of the low, and due to having a very short temper, I do worry that one day, I could get into a really serious confrontation about it (the fights mentioned above have been pretty docile to tell you the truth).

It takes two to fight. One to walk away.

So what happens? You are called 'gay' and that puts you in such a position that the only option is to fight?

Oh, and give me a 'docile' fight any day. Even easier to walk away from.

 

[Anon Mouse]

It takes two to fight. One to walk away.

So what happens? You are called 'gay' and that puts you in such a position that the only option is to fight?

Oh, and give me a 'docile' fight any day. Even easier to walk away from.

The next time someone does that blow them a kiss, knckle draggers like that are so homophobic they will probably run to the hills and you have kept you dignity as to not fighting with them and giving them the reaction they expected.
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Mind you, I practice that seemingly mystic art of subtlety in public, something that appears rather lacking in a lot of those of a similar age and younger than me.

and that applies for everyone, gay, straight or bi. Nobody wants to see people practically making out in public, keep it for the bedroom ffs!

 

[Badger]

Indeed, just a shame it only gives gay people a bad name seemingly, when it applies to everyone!

 

[Nick W]

Interesting side question, where this religious opposition derives from. Jesus certainly didn't say anything about the matter at all, and that surely should be the determining factor: WWJVOTM (What Were Jesus' Views On The Matter), as opposed to what were the views of commentators on Jesus' life (which was essentially what Paul was), or what laws were laid down thousands of years before Jesus' time (and which he himself said were now effectively obsolete).

Almost right, Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17 NIV

Christians view Paul's writings with the same standing as what Jesus is reported to be saying. For "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" 2 Timothy 3:16 NIV.

I will gladly answer, but before I begin, I will point out that I have no problem with homosexual marriage being allowed, providing that all institutions have complete freedom in who they can and cannot marry (and this includes churches being allowed to bar divorced couples from marrying before I'm accused of homophobia).

Genesis 2:

15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper [ie to help him to work and take care of the garden of Eden, not a servant] suitable for him.”

19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
NIV

Matthew 19:

1 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2 Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
NIV

Ephesians 5:

" 21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."
NIV

Just for completeness, Revelation 19:

6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting:

“Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
7 Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear.”

(Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)

9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.
NIV

Can I ask if there's anyone who genuinely wants churches to be forced to marry homosexuals, as oppose to simply allowing venues who wish to do so to do so?

 

[blanco]

having looked at both petitions i signed the c4m version as opposed to the c4em version because that was the one that rang true with me.
this is not in any way an admission of bigotry or homophobia, i just can't be arsed hearing about anymore groups (minority or otherwise), continually demanding that one thing after another be changed just because thats what they want, or it's become the new righteous cause of the pc brigade.

 

[Badger]

I understand what you're saying, but if I was in that position I'd have just not voted, rather than voting against it... Then you aren't inconvenienced in the slightest but the change can still happen. (I assume that's what you mean by you can't be arsed, anyway, sorry). ...if nothing ever changed we'd be in a horrible place. Myself, I'm sick of anything progressive being put down as being "pc brigade", but that's just me.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

i just can't be arsed...

(Sorry, no offence intended).

 

[blanco]

I understand what you're saying, but if I was in that position I'd have just not voted, rather than voting against it... Then you aren't inconvenienced in the slightest but the change can still happen. (I assume that's what you mean by you can't be arsed, anyway, sorry). ...if nothing ever changed we'd be in a horrible place. Myself, I'm sick of anything progressive being put down as being "pc brigade", but that's just me.

by voting for either petition you are by default voting against the other.

there has been massive changes in the last 50 years with regards to race, religion and sexual orientation so it's not a case of anything progressive being "pc brigade", but we're at a point now where if you don't agree with and embrace whatever the new agenda is , you're automatically branded anything from a xenophobe to a homophobe.
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(Sorry, no offence intended).

can't beleive i posted that with a straight face (definitely no pun intended this time).

 

[Mojo]

What is an "agenda?"

This isn't an issue of a group of people or businesses looking to do something for commercial or other reasons acting to the detriment of everyone else. It is asking for rights provided to one group of people to be provided to another group, which is currently not being treated equally through no fault of its own.

 

[Anon Mouse]

What is an "agenda?"

This isn't an issue of a group of people or businesses looking to do something for commercial or other reasons acting to the detriment of everyone else. It is asking for rights provided to one group of people to be provided to another group, which is currently not being treated equally through no fault of its own.

well siad, and anyone who thinks its 'The PC Brigade' asking for fairness and equality is probably a knuckle dragging Sun reader or God forbid a Daily Hate Mail reader!

 

[90019]

well siad, and anyone who thinks its 'The PC Brigade' asking for fairness and equality is probably a knuckle dragging Sun reader or God forbid a Daily Hate Mail reader!

I take it you can't see the irony of this post?

 

[Anon Mouse]

I take it you can't see the irony of this post?

well I may be a bit bigoted towards The Sun and Daily Mail etc, but with good reason.....Did you know that The Daily Mail supported The Blackshirts in the 30's? And people in Liverpool don't buy The Sun for a reason.

But, I am sure plenty of people will be of the same opinion of myself. All I wish we could was a safe, fair and just society where people don't get abused, bullied and marginalised by their choice of lifestyle.

 

[90019]

well I may be a bit bigoted towards The Sun and Daily Mail etc, but with good reason.....

So you're allowed to be bigoted towards something because you feel you can justify it?

Did you know that The Daily Mail supported The Blackshirts in the 30's?

Are you serious? :?