XC desperately needs more rolling stock

[Peterthegreat]

Did bit of data extraction from latest ORR figures for XC

5.4m train kilometres (table 4.1) up 2%
27.3m vehicle km (table 5.1) down 7%
so average XC train now just 4.3 cars long

adjusting for change, last year was 29.2m and 5.292 so average XC train was 5.5 cars

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/ip3ayian/passenger-rail-usage-apr-jun-2023.pdf

How has average XC train shrunk 21% from 5.5 to 4.3 cars in a year ?

Because some trains which were 8/9 cars are now 4/5 and there are now more trains from Newcastle to Reading and Manchester to Bristol which are usually only 4 or 5.

 

[Snow1964]

Because some trains which were 8/9 cars are now 4/5 and there are now more trains from Newcastle to Reading and Manchester to Bristol which are usually only 4 or 5.

I know some (operated by 170s) are only 3 car, but if the average train length is down to 4.3 cars, seems very low.

Also doesn't make sense to shrink train lengths 21% in a year when XC had increase of 8% in passengers (table 1.1). That suggests each train is 37% busier 1.08/(1-0.21)= 1.37

 

[sprinterguy]

I know some (operated by 170s) are only 3 car, but if the average train length is down to 4.3 cars, seems very low.

Most trains are a maximum of 5 cars long, so 4.3 across the TOC seems accurate to me. A handful of 7-car HSTs have been replaced by 8-car Voyager formations, the handful of existing double Voyagers on Plymouth - Edinburgh remains the same, but the largely 8/9-car hourly Bournemouth - Manchester services have become largely 4/5-car hourly Bournemouth and hourly Bristol to Manchester. Hence the decrease.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2023 ==

Also doesn't make sense to shrink train lengths 21% in a year when XC had increase of 8% in passengers (table 1.1). That suggests each train is 37% busier 1.08/(1-0.21)= 1.37

Booked capacity on the North East - South West services themselves has remained fairly static, so busy trains are probably slightly busier than a year ago (There's been an overall increase in capacity between Bristol and Birmingham, and to a smaller extent between Birmingham, Sheffield, York and Newcastle as a result of reintroduced services).

On the Manchester route, an 8% increase is, theoretically, accommodated north of Birmingham across twice the number of trains running at half the length of previously, but in reality passengers that were comfortably spread across a pair of units on the Bournemouth - Manchester route are now concentrated to noticeable effect in a single set. Even more so south of Birmingham, which hasn't seen much of an uplift in frequency.

 

[YorksLad12]

Most trains are a maximum of 5 cars long, so 4.3 across the TOC seems accurate to me. A handful of 7-car HSTs have been replaced by 8-car Voyager formations, the handful of existing double Voyagers on Plymouth - Edinburgh remains the same, but the largely 8/9-car hourly Bournemouth - Manchester services have become largely 4/5-car hourly Bournemouth and hourly Bristol to Manchester. Hence the decrease.

It's inconsistent though. My 0811 from Leeds can be four or five, the 1721 return from Sheffield can be eight or nine (the rear set usually being the five, even though the reservations are in the front set). Getting a seat on the 0811 when it's only four requires some detective work (which end is First? Is someone holding the ramp for a wheelchair passenger?) which is not how I want to start my day...

 

[Jimini]

Because some trains which were 8/9 cars are now 4/5 and there are now more trains from Newcastle to Reading and Manchester to Bristol which are usually only 4 or 5.

Manchester to Brum / Reading / Bournemouth have halved in length since the timetable change aye. Disappointing.

 

[JamesT]

Manchester to Brum / Reading / Bournemouth have halved in length since the timetable change aye. Disappointing.

Which has reinstated services that were cut before, e.g. Reading to Newcastle.
Without more stock, doubling the train length means cutting half the services.

 

[GoneSouth]

It's inconsistent though. My 0811 from Leeds can be four or five, the 1721 return from Sheffield can be eight or nine (the rear set usually being the five, even though the reservations are in the front set). Getting a seat on the 0811 when it's only four requires some detective work (which end is First? Is someone holding the ramp for a wheelchair passenger?) which is not how I want to start my day...

It doesn’t really matter if the reservations are in a 4 or 5 car, Coach A is always first class and standard class reservations are Coach C and D. In a 4 car there is no coach B (which is a second unreserved coach in a 5 car set), and both 4 and 5 car sets have unreserved Coach F. Glad that’s all clear, very uncomplicated for the occasional user

Anyway, for anyone wondering, I think it works like this (albeit I don’t know if there are actually any 10 car formations, but this is how it would look if there were)…

• 4 car - Unreserved coach is F
• 5 car - Unreserved coaches are B and F
• 8 car - Unreserved coaches are F and L
• 9 car - Unreserved coaches are B, F and L
• 10 car - Unreserved coaches are B, F, H and L

Admittedly it’s hard to position yourself in the correct place should an 8 or 9 car arrive, but I’ve found Real Time Trains usually has things pretty well in the correct order, with the formation going front on the left of the screen, scrolling to the back on the right of the screen. I may on the other hand have just got lucky and RTT have no idea which direction the formation is. I’ve managed to be in the correct place on the platform pretty much every time since discovering this. It seems to work for me so I’m sticking with it. Don’t spoil my game and tell me I’m talking nonsense and I’ve just got lucky so far

 

[Snow1964]

It doesn’t really matter if the reservations are in a 4 or 5 car, Coach A is always first class and standard class reservations are Coach C and D. In a 4 car there is no coach B (which is a second unreserved coach in a 5 car set), and both 4 and 5 car sets have unreserved Coach F. Glad that’s all clear, very uncomplicated for the occasional user

Anyway, for anyone wondering, I think it works like this (albeit I don’t know if there are actually any 10 car formations, but this is how it would look if there were)…

• 4 car - Unreserved coach is F
• 5 car - Unreserved coaches are B and F
• 8 car - Unreserved coaches are F and L
• 9 car - Unreserved coaches are B, F and L
• 10 car - Unreserved coaches are B, F, H and L

It is quite significant if your regular train is a mix of 4 or 5 car and you travel on season or open tickets, as the 4 car just has single unreserved coach.

The problem is if XC have reduced average train length from 5.5 cars to 4.3 cars (per ORR figures), then those parts of the network where XC effectively operates as the only train operator at commuter times is not providing much of a service if it has trains of one unreserved coach.

 

[sprinterguy]

Anyway, for anyone wondering, I think it works like this (albeit I don’t know if there are actually any 10 car formations, but this is how it would look if there were)…

There aren't any booked 10 car formations, but they do occur from time to time as a result of 4 and 5 car unit diagrams getting transposed.

 

[YorksLad12]

Anyway, for anyone wondering, I think it works like this (albeit I don’t know if there are actually any 10 car formations, but this is how it would look if there were)…

• 4 car - Unreserved coach is F
• 5 car - Unreserved coaches are B and F
• 8 car - Unreserved coaches are F and L
• 9 car - Unreserved coaches are B, F and L
• 10 car - Unreserved coaches are B, F, H and L

Admittedly it’s hard to position yourself in the correct place should an 8 or 9 car arrive, but I’ve found Real Time Trains usually has things pretty well in the correct order, with the formation going front on the left of the screen, scrolling to the back on the right of the screen. I may on the other hand have just got lucky and RTT have no idea which direction the formation is. I’ve managed to be in the correct place on the platform pretty much every time since discovering this. It seems to work for me so I’m sticking with it. Don’t spoil my game and tell me I’m talking nonsense and I’ve just got lucky so far

I think you're correct, but my experience is that seats are rarely reserved in the second set (G-L). A five on the 0811 is a godsend; I'll walk down to near the end of the platform while the grockles hang around the stairs. If First is at the front, stand near where the forward door for B should be; if First is at the rear, you'll be right for coach F (though I usually walk right to the front in that case). The fun part is when it's a four-car set with First at the front. As the train pulls in people start walking down the platform, past where I'm standing... roughly where the rear door for F should be.

F and L have fewer seats than the other coaches because of the wheelchair space... which is usually full of standees, Leeds to Sheffield, on a four-car set.

It's quite sad I have to plan my workday mornings like this, especially as I don't do mornings...