Wright Geminis and the differences between different Generations (can include Streetdeck).

[Graham Alexand]

*Mod note* Split from the Lothian Group discussion

Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

New thread to discuss the service bus operations of Lothian Buses and subsidiaries - continuation of this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lothian-buses-and-ecb-discussion.151391/

www.railforums.co.uk

Is there any difference between a B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini and a B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 (apart from the headlights).

 

[Graham Alexand]

Basically a facelift. The B9 Gemini's are exactly the same as the B9 Gemini 2's except the Gemini 2's have a completely different front end, different glazing and other little changes.
View attachment 86115
(images used with permission)

Thanks.

Seeing by the picture im guessing the B5LH Wright Eclipse Gemini 2.5 is the same as the B5LH Wright Eclipse Gemini 3 for the exption of the face-lift.

 

[OmniCity999]

Thanks.

Seeing by the picture im guessing the B5LH Wright Eclipse Gemini 2.5 is the same as the B5LH Wright Eclipse Gemini 3 for the exption of the face-lift.

It's just called the Gemini 2.

Here are the differences

 

[cnjb8]

Careful. The Gemini 2 is the VDL variant of the Wright double decker range that replaced the Pulsar Gemini. But rather confusingly, the Eclipse Gemini 2 was replaced by the Gemini 3, and the Gemini 2 replaced by the StreetDeck

 

[Graham Alexand]

It's just called the Gemini 2.

Here are the differences


View attachment 86117

Sorry I think i may have said the wrong name by 2.5 i was referring to this

Lothian Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 3 BN64COU 402 operating service 2 to The Jewel at Dewar Place on 16 March 2017.

Unusual working as normally served by single deckers. Doubly unusual to see this type of bus on the service.

www.flickr.com

 

[OmniCity999]

Sorry I think i may have said the wrong name by 2.5 i was referring to this

Lothian Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 3 BN64COU 402 operating service 2 to The Jewel at Dewar Place on 16 March 2017.

Unusual working as normally served by single deckers. Doubly unusual to see this type of bus on the service.

www.flickr.com

There isn't a Gemini 2.5, that model doesn't exist. Its a Gemini 3 Classic any parts ive seen labelled or that we've had delivered just said Gemini 3.

If you look at the first picture I shared, what you refer to as the 2.5 is labelled as the Gemini 3 Classic.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2020 ==

Careful. The Gemini 2 is the VDL variant of the Wright double decker range that replaced the Pulsar Gemini. But rather confusingly, the Eclipse Gemini 2 was replaced by the Gemini 3, and the Gemini 2 replaced by the StreetDeck

Correct!

The Pulsar was the VDL bodied single decker.

The Eclipse was the Volvo bodied single Decker.

The Gemini just denotes it being a decker. Gemini of course meaning 2. (Or twin?)

I believe at first it was just called the Gemini as you say but later acknowledged as either a Pulsar Gemini or an Eclipse Gemini when Wright started offering it en-masse.

The VDL offering was vastly cheaper to mass purchase hence being popular with Arriva etc. I believe Wright stopped offering a VDL chassis option and as such the Streedeck was created to replace this as an integral, housing (i think) a Cummins or Mercedes engine? as the new "cheap" option. In the process replacing the Pulsar range. With single decks being covered by the god awful Streetlites.

This created a "cheap" integral option and a heavyweight option in the Volvo chassis/Eclipse Gemini bodies. In line with other Manufacturers. Except Wright also offered a single deck "heavyweight" option too - the Eclipse.

Wrights fleet upgrade branding isn't the most clever, but not much that came out of wrights ever was. But that's not a conversation for here... haha

 

[CN04NRJ]

There isn't a Gemini 2.5, that model doesn't exist. Its a Gemini 3 Classic any parts ive seen labelled or that we've had delivered just said Gemini 3.

If you look at the first picture I shared, what you refer to as the 2.5 is labelled as the Gemini 3 Classic.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2020 ==


Correct!

The Pulsar was the VDL bodied single decker.

The Eclipse was the Volvo bodied single Decker.

The Gemini just denotes it being a decker. Gemini of course meaning 2. (Or twin?)

I believe at first it was just called the Gemini as you say but later acknowledged as either a Pulsar Gemini or an Eclipse Gemini when Wright started offering it en-masse.

The VDL offering was vastly cheaper to mass purchase hence being popular with Arriva etc. I believe Wright stopped offering a VDL chassis option and as such the Streedeck was created to replace this as an integral, housing (i think) a Cummins or Mercedes engine? as the new "cheap" option. In the process replacing the Pulsar range. With single decks being covered by the god awful Streetlites.

This created a "cheap" integral option and a heavyweight option in the Volvo chassis/Eclipse Gemini bodies. In line with other Manufacturers. Except Wright also offered a single deck "heavyweight" option too - the Eclipse.

Wrights fleet upgrade branding isn't the most clever, but not much that came out of wrights ever was. But that's not a conversation for here... haha

The Streetdeck being woefully underpowered and unreliable with a 4 cylinder Daimler or Cummins engine - I believe they've only just recently started offering it with a 6 cylinder.

 

[cnjb8]

There isn't a Gemini 2.5, that model doesn't exist. Its a Gemini 3 Classic any parts ive seen labelled or that we've had delivered just said Gemini 3.

If you look at the first picture I shared, what you refer to as the 2.5 is labelled as the Gemini 3 Classic.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2020 ==


Correct!

The Pulsar was the VDL bodied single decker.

The Eclipse was the Volvo bodied single Decker.

The Gemini just denotes it being a decker. Gemini of course meaning 2. (Or twin?)

I believe at first it was just called the Gemini as you say but later acknowledged as either a Pulsar Gemini or an Eclipse Gemini when Wright started offering it en-masse.

The VDL offering was vastly cheaper to mass purchase hence being popular with Arriva etc. I believe Wright stopped offering a VDL chassis option and as such the Streedeck was created to replace this as an integral, housing (i think) a Cummins or Mercedes engine? as the new "cheap" option. In the process replacing the Pulsar range. With single decks being covered by the god awful Streetlites.

This created a "cheap" integral option and a heavyweight option in the Volvo chassis/Eclipse Gemini bodies. In line with other Manufacturers. Except Wright also offered a single deck "heavyweight" option too - the Eclipse.

Wrights fleet upgrade branding isn't the most clever, but not much that came out of wrights ever was. But that's not a conversation for here... haha

Yes that sounds right. I believe the Gemini 2 (not the Eclipse variant) had some integral elements in its chassis with VDL supplying some parts for it. This makes me think it's successor is the StreetDeck. The Pulsar 2 chassis was entirely VDL though. Can't wrap my head around it!

 

[CBlue]

Yes that sounds right. I believe the Gemini 2 (not the Eclipse variant) had some integral elements in its chassis with VDL supplying some parts for it. This makes me think it's successor is the StreetDeck. The Pulsar 2 chassis was entirely VDL though. Can't wrap my head around it!

The Gemini 2 integral shared some components with the VDL DB300 double deck bus chassis.
The Streetdeck, especially the hybrid versions, share a lot of parts originally developed for the New Bus for London as I understand it - but it's entirely likely the Gemini 2's VDL bits were used as a starting point for both in their development.

 

[kez19]

This may be an awkward question to ask, but I notice on the geminis (must depend on the model) but its rear part is different.

Examples I found:

rear 1 (original Gemini I would call it)

Rear shot of Midland Classic DAF DB250/Wright Eclipse Gemini 47 (LJ04 LGA)

Midland Classic DAF DB250/Wright Eclipse Gemini 47 (LJ04 LGA) pictured in Burton on Trent working on the 10 to Acorn Inn. Taken on 30/12/2016.

www.flickr.com

rear 2 https://www.flickr.com/photos/gbbus...-nCAuPS-H995xT-2hQPdok-VGDTwQ-24AQtuz-2i1HUBD

rear 3 https://www.flickr.com/photos/27204...mhz5J-2jyMH8e-2jwu8ig-2jMSmwv-2fJVSNv-28EDB3U

I noticed that rear 2 doesn't have a headlight to rear 3 (top window), i'm no bus model/make expert here but I find its those sort of features that stick out on a bus (apart from the headlights at front).

I may as well add to this, the windows on the buses themselves are different and I think even the engines are different too(?), I know in relation to rear 3 that GNE has some of these buses as hybrids? (correct me anyone)

 

[Graham Alexand]

This may be an awkward question to ask, but I notice on the geminis (must depend on the model) but its rear part is different.

Examples I found:

rear 1 (original Gemini I would call it)

Rear shot of Midland Classic DAF DB250/Wright Eclipse Gemini 47 (LJ04 LGA)

Midland Classic DAF DB250/Wright Eclipse Gemini 47 (LJ04 LGA) pictured in Burton on Trent working on the 10 to Acorn Inn. Taken on 30/12/2016.

www.flickr.com

rear 2 https://www.flickr.com/photos/gbbus...-nCAuPS-H995xT-2hQPdok-VGDTwQ-24AQtuz-2i1HUBD

rear 3 https://www.flickr.com/photos/27204...mhz5J-2jyMH8e-2jwu8ig-2jMSmwv-2fJVSNv-28EDB3U

I noticed that rear 2 doesn't have a headlight to rear 3 (top window), i'm no bus mode/make expert here but I find its those sort of features that stick out on a bus (apart from the headlights at front).

I may as well add to this, the windows on the buses themselves are different and I think even the engines are different too(?), I know in relation to rear 3 that GNE has some of these buses as hybrids? (correct me anyone)

I think the first 2 are B7TL's and the 3rd one is a B9TL.

 

[kez19]

I think the first 2 are B7TL's and the 3rd one is a B9TL.

For where I stay Xplore Dundee only has the first 2 in the fleet, its not until I visit areas outwith I notice these differences ie First Glasgow or Go North East.

 

[BradK2017]

This may be an awkward question to ask, but I notice on the geminis (must depend on the model) but its rear part is different.

Examples I found:

rear 1 (original Gemini I would call it)

Rear shot of Midland Classic DAF DB250/Wright Eclipse Gemini 47 (LJ04 LGA)

Midland Classic DAF DB250/Wright Eclipse Gemini 47 (LJ04 LGA) pictured in Burton on Trent working on the 10 to Acorn Inn. Taken on 30/12/2016.

www.flickr.com

rear 2 https://www.flickr.com/photos/gbbus...-nCAuPS-H995xT-2hQPdok-VGDTwQ-24AQtuz-2i1HUBD

rear 3 https://www.flickr.com/photos/27204...mhz5J-2jyMH8e-2jwu8ig-2jMSmwv-2fJVSNv-28EDB3U

I noticed that rear 2 doesn't have a headlight to rear 3 (top window), i'm no bus mode/make expert here but I find its those sort of features that stick out on a bus (apart from the headlights at front).

I may as well add to this, the windows on the buses themselves are different and I think even the engines are different too(?), I know in relation to rear 3 that GNE has some of these buses as hybrids? (correct me anyone)

Rear 1 is a DAF DB250/Gemini 1,with the smaller rear window
Rear 2 is a Volvo B7/Gemini 1,with the full length rear window
Rear 3 is a Volvo B9/Gemini 2,with the revised rear end plus updated rear bumper,B9/Geminis before 2012 had a different style around the reg area without the rear light:


The windows are different because A) some operators bought bonded & others bought Gasket (Most London ones had Gasket) plus they are different lengths.

Yes GNE alongside the likes of First,Arriva & Lothian have hybrid Gemini 2s on B5LH chassis,identifiable by the 'shower cubicle' on the nearside plus the rear only has a half length window & a panal next to it:

 

[kez19]

Rear 1 is a DAF DB250/Gemini 1,with the smaller rear window
Rear 2 is a Volvo B7/Gemini 1,with the full length rear window
Rear 3 is a Volvo B9/Gemini 2,with the revised rear end plus updated rear bumper,B9/Geminis before 2012 had a different style around the reg area without the rear light:
View attachment 86216

The windows are different because A) some operators bought bonded & others bought Gasket (Most London ones had Gasket) plus they are different lengths.

Yes GNE alongside the likes of First,Arriva & Lothian have hybrid Gemini 2s on B5LH chassis,identifiable by the 'shower cubicle' on the nearside plus the rear only has a half length window & a panal next to it:
View attachment 86217

Thank you for the information, like I say I wouldn't even know this but I did spot these oddities!


Maybe a bit unrelated are some of the Geminis away to come off due to age soon? (at a guess Gemini 1 DAFs)

 

[OmniCity999]

Here's a little breakdown of the Volvo offering, the Eclipse Gemini range.

Thank you for the information, like I say I wouldn't even know this but I did spot these oddities!


Maybe a bit unrelated are some of the Geminis away to come off due to age soon? (at a guess Gemini 1 DAFs)

Not sure about the wider country, but we (Lothian) have just got rid of all of our (125) Gemini bodied B7TL's. Thats not to mention the B7RLE's we've sold too.

Into next year we'll also be looking at flogging just over 100 B9TL's too - due to new arrivals!

 

[156443]

The Streetdeck being woefully underpowered and unreliable with a 4 cylinder Daimler or Cummins engine - I believe they've only just recently started offering it with a 6 cylinder.

Yes that is correct, Go North East have a 6-cylinder Streetdeck which is the first one in the (mainland) UK

Go North East X-lines 6377 / NK70 BYV by kieron mathews, on Flickr

 

[kez19]

Here's a little breakdown of the Volvo offering, the Eclipse Gemini range.

View attachment 86225View attachment 86226

Not sure about the wider country, but we (Lothian) have just got rid of all of our (125) Gemini bodied B7TL's. Thats not to mention the B7RLE's we've sold too.

Into next year we'll also be looking at flogging just over 100 B9TL's too - due to new arrivals!

I also forgot that Lothian had updated buses too (apologies), yet been to Edinburgh a few times!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2020 ==

Yes that is correct, Go North East have a 6-cylinder Streetdeck which is the first one in the (mainland) UK

Go North East X-lines 6377 / NK70 BYV by kieron mathews, on Flickr

Odd question regarding these now... it can’t be my imagination but those buses look have a light on the outside (the full length of the windows)? Seems to be the oddest feature for me. (Upper deck)

 

[route101]

One thing about bus models can be very confusing. At First Glasgow we have older B7TLS and B9TLs. The B9TLs have a different rear and shorter wheelbase, they also have a different engine.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Another minor point is some Gemini 3s have fibreglass corners on the front rather than glass (one of Lothian's 2015 B5LHs)

 

[Graham Alexand]

Another minor point is some Gemini 3s have fibreglass corners on the front rather than glass (one of Lothian's 2015 B5LHs)

View attachment 86228

I like the glass edges but i think the fiberglass edges makes it look more complete in my opinion.

Im pretty sure that all the Lothian Country Wright Eclipse Gemini 3's all have the glass edges, correct me if im wrong.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I like the glass edges but i think the fiberglass edges makes it look more complete in my opinion.

Im pretty sure that all the Lothian Country Wright Eclipse Gemini 3's all have the glass edges, correct me if im wrong.

Yes, they're all from 2017 batch.

 

[156443]

Odd question regarding these now... it can’t be my imagination but those buses look have a light on the outside (the full length of the windows)? Seems to be the oddest feature for me. (Upper deck

All of Go North East’s new double deckers have illuminated cant rails

 

[kez19]

All of Go North East’s new double deckers have illuminated cant rails

Is that what they are called? We’re those lights on the deckers provided under the x9/x10 route or Angel 21 route? I mind using them when the buses had been new but can’t remember seeing the light!

 

[156443]

Is that what they are called? We’re those lights on the deckers provided under the x9/x10 route or Angel 21 route? I mind using them when the buses had been new but can’t remember seeing the light!

Only the newer 20/70 plate Streetdecks have them as well as the E400s based at Consett and the ones that are coming to Hexham soon.

Go North East X-lines 6343 / YX70 OKJ by kieron mathews, on Flickr

Go North East X-lines 6363 / NK70 BYN by kieron mathews, on Flickr

 

[kez19]

Only the newer 20/70 plate Streetdecks have them as well as the E400s based at Consett and the ones that are coming to Hexham soon.

Go North East X-lines 6343 / YX70 OKJ by kieron mathews, on Flickr

Go North East X-lines 6363 / NK70 BYN by kieron mathews, on Flickr

I wonder what the reason is behind that? (do the lights change colour at all or is it just a specific colour) (not a negative).

 

[Jordan Adam]

I wonder what the reason is behind that? (do the lights change colour at all or is it just a specific colour) (not a negative).

I'd imagine the strip of lights are probably a multicolour LED so can probably be set to anything. Not really sure what the purpose is but it looks good at night i guess...

 

[kez19]

I'd imagine the strip of lights are probably a multicolour LED so can probably be set to anything. Not really sure what the purpose is but it looks good at night i guess...

I need to see it the next time I’m down there, as I did use one of their street decks a while back, there is some pics on Flickr with it lit up.

 

[Graham Alexand]

What is the Difference between a Streetdeck and a Gemini 3?

 

[cnjb8]

What is the Difference between a Streetdeck and a Gemini 3?

StreetDecks are integral, so fully built by Wright.
Gemini 3s have a Volvo chassis, so only the bodywork is Wright.

 

[dan5324]

London had just about every variant i believe. I remember some even had different “stopping” signs. Some were orange dotted. Others were light green on a dark background. No idea if that was random or tied to any specific variant. Some also made an air type sound by the centre doors when accelerating. Others didn’t.