Why no Penalty Fare?

[Witham_123]

Firstly I want to admit that I travelled without a valid ticket, of that I cannot deny. What has surprised me is that rather than be issued with a penalty fare I was cautioned and had all my details taken and am left to wait to hear what the outcome is.

My monthly travelcard expired over the weekend and completely oblivious to this I travelled from Witham to Stratford on the 6.47am GA Abellio service. At Stratford (where I was changing to the Central Line) I showed my out of date ticket and walked off, I was wearing headphones and didn't initially hear the inspector calling me back. Once I was, I showed him the ticket again and he passed me over to one of the Revenue team, where I fully co operated with them.

Why wasn't I issued with a penalty fare?

 

[Diplodicus]

Probably because you are on the Monopoly square that says:"Do not pass Go; go directly to ..." Keep a watch on you mail and if you haven't heard anything in a couple of weeks phone and see what (if anything) is going on. Record dates and times carefully plus the name of the person(s) to whom you speak. Your pleas for mercy will be strengthened if you renewed your season ticket without a gap in validity.

Good luck!

 

[ainsworth74]

Penalty Fares are discretionary and are intended, usually, to combat innocent mistakes. Presumably (rightly or wrongly) they felt that there was deliberate fare evasion taking place and therefore opted for the more severe sanctions available to them.

I would expect to hear something in the post in the New Year regarding this matter but it may be several weeks before you do.

 

[MikeWh]

Keep a watch on you mail and if you haven't heard anything in a couple of weeks...

It can often take a month or more for a letter to be sent. With three bank holidays in the next two weeks I'd be extremely surprised if any letter is received in that timescale.

 

[Witham_123]

I looked at the Revenue Protection & Prosecutions Policy on the website and this is their Prosecution Criteria:

Abellio Greater Anglia regards the following as aggravating factors.

Previous conviction for similar offences.
Substantial revenue loss or offences persisting over a prolonged period of time.
Being previously warned for a similar offence.
When stopped and questioned failing to answer any reasonable question at the time.
Using abusive or threatening behaviour towards any person on the railway.
Any behaviour which is deemed to be anti social and fails within the Railway bye-laws.

I fit none of these, so am hoping they won't pursue it, I just want to play a Penalty Fee and move on.

 

[ainsworth74]

I looked at the Revenue Protection & Prosecutions Policy on the website and this is their Prosecution Criteria:

Abellio Greater Anglia regards the following as aggravating factors.

Those are aggravating factors not the only factors that would trigger a prosecution. For a successful prosecution under Railway Byelaw 18, for example, all they need to show is that you travelled without a valid ticket when having the opportunity to pay the correct fare for your journey. It may be that they will happily accept an offer of payment with an apology and assurances it won't happen again but it equally might be that they decide to pursue court action.

You may wish to consult the Legal section of our Ticketing Guide for more information and with particular reference to this section and this section.

 

[najaB]

I fit none of these, so am hoping they won't pursue it, I just want to play a Penalty Fee and move on.

If you meant a Penalty Fare then sorry, that boat has sailed. A PF is issued at the time, rather than retrospectively.

That said, it is entirely possible that they will settle the matter without troubling the Courts - this may or may not involve payment of a settlement fee.

 

[Witham_123]

Thanks. Basically you always need a ticket, forgetfulness isn't a defence, though I just hope the punishment isn't too harsh.

 

[Witham_123]

Many thanks, these links have been very helpful.

 

[Llanigraham]

I looked at the Revenue Protection & Prosecutions Policy on the website and this is their Prosecution Criteria:

Abellio Greater Anglia regards the following as aggravating factors.

Previous conviction for similar offences.
Substantial revenue loss or offences persisting over a prolonged period of time.
Being previously warned for a similar offence.
When stopped and questioned failing to answer any reasonable question at the time.
Using abusive or threatening behaviour towards any person on the railway.
Any behaviour which is deemed to be anti social and fails within the Railway bye-laws.

I fit none of these, so am hoping they won't pursue it, I just want to play a Penalty Fee and move on.

Are you sure?
You have admitted that because you had earphones on you didn't hear them until they ran after you. The implication of your actions points towards you trying to walk away.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's quite possible that you have been caught up in the unfortunate situation of you showing it and walking away and ignoring them as being seen as deliberate evasion, even if this was simply that you didn't notice it was out of date. Were there no automatic barriers during your journey? First thing you might do if one fails to accept your ticket might be to look at it and see if you can see why?

If you had just gone to the barrier and explained the problem most likely a PF would have been issued.

 

[najaB]

Were there no automatic barriers during your journey? First thing you might do if one fails to accept your ticket might be to look at it and see if you can see why?

If you had just gone to the barrier and explained the problem most likely a PF would have been issued.

No barriers at Witham and (I believe) no need to pass barriers to get to the Central line at Stratford.

 

[Antman]

Are you sure?
You have admitted that because you had earphones on you didn't hear them until they ran after you. The implication of your actions points towards you trying to walk away.

Wearing headphones and not hearing somebody call as a result is commonplace

 

[Witham_123]

Are you sure?
You have admitted that because you had earphones on you didn't hear them until they ran after you. The implication of your actions points towards you trying to walk away.

I hadn't thought of it like that, I meant that I was co-operative with the member of the Revenue Team rather than he Ticket Inspector.

 

[Llanigraham]

Wearing headphones and not hearing somebody call as a result is commonplace

And some people have been known to do it on purpose.
(I am not accusing the OP)
You can therefore see why some may see it as suspicious.

 

[6Gman]

Wearing headphones and not hearing somebody call as a result is commonplace

Indeed. But, I would suggest, unwise.

By all means wear headphones on the train if one wants. Fall asleep if one wants. Put a paper bag over one's head if you like.

But on the platform is it not wise to remove them for the few minutes involved? So you can hear platform alterations, safety announcements etc etc? And so you can hear questions from staff trying to do their jobs?

 

[yorkie]

Wearing headphones and not hearing somebody call as a result is commonplace

It may make a Regulation of Railways Act offence difficult to prove, but the prosecutor may think 'this looks dodgy, we can't prove it was deliberate, so we won't try to prove intent, let's go for a Byelaw offence instead', and he appears to admit guilt of a Byelaw offence.

Whether or not it was accidental probably won't come into it; it doesn't look good, but they'll probably go for a Byelaw Offence, for which guilt is almost certain, so it will be an irrelevance.

Therefore my advice would be to apologise to the Company and negotiate (or accept, if offered) an out of court settlement.

 

[jon0844]

I looked at the Revenue Protection & Prosecutions Policy on the website and this is their Prosecution Criteria:

Abellio Greater Anglia regards the following as aggravating factors.

Previous conviction for similar offences.
Substantial revenue loss or offences persisting over a prolonged period of time.
Being previously warned for a similar offence.
When stopped and questioned failing to answer any reasonable question at the time.
Using abusive or threatening behaviour towards any person on the railway.
Any behaviour which is deemed to be anti social and fails within the Railway bye-laws.

I fit none of these, so am hoping they won't pursue it, I just want to play a Penalty Fee and move on.

Did you renew your season that day so you could travel back okay? That wouldn't mean you had now paid for your original journey, although technically the TOC would no longer be out of pocket and that might help with any appeal?

 

[Witham_123]

Whether or not it was accidental probably won't come into it; it doesn't look good, but they'll probably go for a Byelaw Offence, for which guilt is almost certain, so it will be an irrelevance.

Therefore my advice would be to apologise to the Company and negotiate (or accept, if offered) an out of court settlement.

This is what I will do, should I wait for the letter to come or would you recommend I write in beforehand?

I haven't bought a new monthly ticket as I am not working for 10 days over Christmas.

The Officer took the expired ticket and I also had the one for the previous month in my wallet so I hope this shows I am normally a law abiding, fare paying customer.

I now wish there were barriers at Witham as I wouldn't have got through them to start my journey in the first place.

 

[yorkie]

So the journey remains unpaid for?

What about the journey back?

 

[Witham_123]

So the journey remains unpaid for?

What about the journey back?

That is what surprised me, I wasn't given the opportunity to pay. I continued my journey on the Underground for which I paid from Stratford - Tottenham Court Road.

I bought a single ticket to Witham for the return journey last night.

 

[Witham_123]

Latest is that they have written to me for confirmation I was the person that gave that name & address and for me to explain what happened.

I now just wait to hear from the prosecution team. I admitted my error, gave my side and said I hoped it could be settled amicably. i.e. not by prosecution!

 

[Witham_123]

Just had the letter through, I have to pay £97 which naturally will do and learn from it.

Thanks to all on here who helped me with their advice/thoughts.

 

[najaB]

Thanks to all on here who helped me with their advice/thoughts.

Glad that it's resolve, shame that it cost as much as it did. Though, it's less than what a court fine would've been.

 

[PeterC]

Along with some others my immediate reaction was that the failure to respond when called back triggered the response.

It is often possible to put an unfavorable interpretation on innocent behaviour if you are looking for the bad guys.