Why don't we have stations like these?

[blacknight]

IMO because of the following:-
1 Luftwaffe were crap why else as Britain still of a Victorian infrastructure whilst rest of European as a modern rail network? because Bomber Command started much of the redevelopement work for Europeans.
2 We have got better taste glass & steel bit like cordon bleu cooking looks nice but will it keep you going for next 150 years. Victorians certainly built things to last even when modern train operators are even reluctant to mend & make do for instance Wakefield Kirkgate.

 

[gordonthemoron]

there are a lot of pre-WWII stations around in germany and other mainland european countries, e.g.

Cologne, Frankfurt, Stuttgart (although DB are trying to demolish it at the mo), Dresden, Erfurt, Leipzig. Also, Milan, Antwerp, some of the Paris terminii, Amsterdam, Budapest main stations

BTW, they are demolishing Vienna Sudbahnhof and Ostbahnhof and replacing them with this

 

[PR1Berske]

Couldn't we just clean the ones we have and give them a lick of paint,I travelled from Efinburgh last week and can honestly say that Waverley,Preston and Crewe made me embarrassed to be British

I use Preston almost every day of the week. There are some dire parts, and some in need of rapid repair.

Platforms 1 & 2 - have you seen underneath the stairs? There will be a collapse or invasion of woodlice before we're through. Hundreds of commuters killed by modified Giant Insects.

The new Great White Wall Subway - now needs the job finishing. It has gone from "in obvious need of repair" to "in obvious need of having the work completed".

 

[monkey]

*Checks calender*

...I mean 20th century of course lol! I knew something wasn't right when I wrote that...

 

[Toots]

I think a pretty good comparison between old and new has to be Manchester Victoria and the 'new' fails miserably in my opinion.Concrete and glass may be functional,and you could argue thats what a railway station should be,but these are gateways to our cities and towns and as such should look elegant and imposing.Its ironic that the architecture at the Trafford Centre draws from Victorian ideas in the form of domes and pillars and are the best bits of the building.To make stations look like airports may be alright for the short term,but as we have seen with Euston,even that looks tired and dated now,and its been up a quarter of the time the victorian stations have....

 

[PR1Berske]

Some stations in need of improvement have greater justification than others. In my area of knowledge, Preston needs severe improvements from top to bottom, Wigan North Western could do with improved waiting rooms on both sides, more shelters, and (surely, given its on WCML), a licenced bar of some kind?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I use Preston almost every day of the week. There are some dire parts, and some in need of rapid repair.

Platforms 1 & 2 - have you seen underneath the stairs? There will be a collapse or invasion of woodlice before we're through. Hundreds of commuters killed by modified Giant Insects.

I'm there every weekend, and a friend is there everyday, the subway will be recieving new flooring and white cladding, like the lift shafts and subway have. The roof is in a pretty bad state, but hopefully they will benefit from something of that mysterious £50,000,000 bad station fund
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some stations in need of improvement have greater justification than others. In my area of knowledge, Preston needs severe improvements from top to bottom, Wigan North Western could do with improved waiting rooms on both sides, more shelters, and (surely, given its on WCML), a licenced bar of some kind?

The stations north of Crewe on the true WCML vary: Lancaster, Oxenholme & Penrith: OK, Preston: it'll do, Wigan NW & Warrington BQ: awful, and Carlsile: beautiful.

I would recommend the foillowing for the three unsatisfactory ones:
Preston: improvements to subway etc as above, Demolish p7, widen 5/6, get lounges etc on that, declutter 1/2 (inc cafe), put lounges on. On 3/4, reopen the buffet/pub to the south, and a first class lounge, as well as a larger, nicer waiting room and better toilets. CLean up the platforms/roof in general, and resurface the platforms. Clean the bridge. Sorted

Wigan NW & Warrington BQ: Demolish the 60s LMS building on platforms, resurface platforms, standardise the lenghts of the platforms, brighten up the subway, improve toilets, and build nice, bright, airy buoldings on platforms as lounges, cafes, and BTP offices . And first class lounges at the London end of the southbound platforms

DONE

 

[PR1Berske]

Platform 7 at Preston could be (looking into the long term) coverted for light-rail/trams, so best if that stays....

Platforms 1&2 are definately in need to being ripped up and started again. Nothing is 'fit for purpose'.

The bridge and steps onto 1&2 is in need of painting and repair.
A departure screen at the top of the stairs needs re-introducing.
The eccentric (to put it mildly) seating arrangements need changing - the "pinch points" when busy trains arrive at the same time on each makes for very uncomfortable crowds.
Remove those damn vending machines - they rarely (if ever) work, having two on the platforms seems a waste of space anyway.
Resurface, repaint.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Platform 7 at Preston could be (looking into the long term) coverted for light-rail/trams, so best if that stays....

The trams are running into the city centre, or road level at the station if it gets that far. And I don't think Mr Branson would like something like trams to get in way of his plans...

 

[PR1Berske]

The trams are running into the city centre, or road level at the station if it gets that far. And I don't think Mr Branson would like something like trams to get in way of his plans...

If they were smart, they'd run in Platform 7 from Deepdale/Maudlands.....

 

[Invincibles]

A nice PPM to Deepdale would be great, then on football days (usually Saturday so in theory there is a little more stock around) a bigger train could be run to get people away from the ground (especially useful when it comes to police operations to get people back to the station). With P7 being self contained enough it should be possible to run a PPM?

Anyway, that is all a little bit far from the topic. To me it just seems like in some places they have the space and inclination to do a lot of non practical things that may look good but are entirely unnecessary to the operation of a railway line. Personally I would much rather every station looked like Wigan or Warrington (which are really not that bad) and there was a regular service running to the places people wanted to get to than have companies running out of money to provide services because they make their stations better. In an ideal world you do not spend that long at the station anyway, particularly not if the service can be made frequent enough or connections good enough. Where there are long expected wait times the stations tend to be grander anyway, look at Manchester Piccadilly now or at the extreme London St Pancras main shed.

 

[At_traction]

To me it just seems like in some places they have the space and inclination to do a lot of non practical things that may look good but are entirely unnecessary to the operation of a railway line.

If (some) people didn't have that inclination, our common surroundings would be very, hum, pedestrian indeed. No "historic" civic or commercial buildings whatsoever and sheds as stations. Because that would do to do the bare minimum. But that's not what construing even somewhat passable (not to mention fulfilling) urban space and a station for more than cattle is about at all.

Personally I would much rather every station looked like Wigan or Warrington (which are really not that bad) and there was a regular service running to the places people wanted to get to than have companies running out of money to provide services because they make their stations better.

:roll:

In an ideal world you do not spend that long at the station anyway, particularly not if the service can be made frequent enough or connections good enough.

In an ideal world there would be both the services - railway and in-station ones - and station architecture with thought put into it. Stations last for decades, and providing something substandard in any sense just because the current TOC(s) couldn't get their act together is no excuse for making the station a miserable place as well, requiring constant upgrade because the shed was built sub-standard to begin with.

Where there are long expected wait times the stations tend to be grander anyway, look at Manchester Piccadilly now or at the extreme London St Pancras main shed.

Stations like these can be seen rather as (even for their day) over-exuberant displays put forth by the railway barons of their day, to show that they had indeed "arrived" at these cities. And what's a few graves for Midland as long as they get the viaduct through to a proper show-off piece next to Great Northern's. Complete with a reused Scott design for a magnificent station facade. More a uselessly over-the-top ego-boosting exercise than proper care for travellers' well-being, one could say (and many undoubtedly did). But good that it was, otherwise we'd be poorer for it.

But there's a difference between going berserk and making a design that can be both useful and a bit more graceful at the same time. Pushing the structural engineer just a bit in just one key area can produce much more open and inviting spaces, without being that much more expensive - or more difficult to maintain. And an undertaking such as the EDB shed roof remake is something that brings a new lease of such usability (more light) as well as easier maintenance.

 

[Invincibles]

An interesting thought about the civic buildings of the victorians, were they actually ground breaking or is there a lot of similarities in the styles used by various cities up and down the country. They certainly appeal to a past age of grandeaur and philanthropy and give off a sense of pride that maybe somewhere like Wigan North Western does not (even comparing Wigan Wallgate entrance gives a simple comparison) but what is actually to say that the designs that we currently hate are not going to one day be viewed with fondness as a period where useability triumphed over false ideas of consumer utility.

I am currently in China where they are building a vast new high speed network and all the new stations are enormous places with loads of platforms and big station buildings that house waiting halls and direct you seemlessly to long open platforms. These sorts of stations would be great in the UK, modern and simple to use. But again our notion of being able to wait on the platform and change quickly is lost in a world where each train has its own waiting room and you go directly to the part of the platform you need to be at as the train arrives.

And then who is to say that the open platforms, covered only in glass and reflective steel canopies, with their obvious advantages in light are actually the best solution? Why not the crowded darkness of Wigan?

Maybe there is an optimum somewhere that can please both the bean counter and the architecture critic, I do not know the answer to that one but I certainly see nothing in many of the potential solutions to stations in the UK that particularly makes me think that a mass reconstruction is necessary or even in many cases desirable.

 

[Aictos]

BTW, they are demolishing Vienna Sudbahnhof and Ostbahnhof and replacing them with this

Urg, that's awful!

 

[gordonthemoron]

Urg, that's awful!

exactly, although Südbahnhof which is being demolished was also awful, as is Westbahnhof.

The new station they've built on Praterinsel near the big wheel is actually rather good though

 

[LE Greys]

Urg, that's awful!

A particularly hideous piece of modern architecture, inevitably painted white. In twenty years' time, that will look like Birmingham International.

 

[At_traction]

exactly, although Südbahnhof which is being demolished was also awful, as is Westbahnhof.

Judging from the photos of the present ones, that was also my impression. Although the replacement design is a bit over the top - in just the sense that gives much of the modern architecture a bad(dish) name - the question is indeed would the public rather have continued to use the somewhat run-down, rationalist, semi-fascistic buff brick station rather than have a new station with improved services, spaces and lightness? (White steel cassettes are lighter in tone than a cast-iron-framed shed, even after grime sets in.)