Why do we have to pay the rail fare for a bus substitution?

[Class 170101]

TOCs want as few people as possible to travel when they run RRBs so discounting fares is the last thing they will do.

Granted, but they also want them to come back afterwards.

 

[dk1]

Granted, but they also want them to come back afterwards.

But to be fair they always do anyway in my experience.

 

[soil]

Really?
A bus journey in London costs £1.75 - any distance, change as often as you need to within an hour).
A single train fare within one zone is £2.60 (£1.70 with a railcard). But very few journeys outside Zone 1 (where fares are higher) are entirely within one zone.

This is not correct. A Z5-Z2 TFL journey is £2. E.g., Canada Water - West Croydon. With railcard that's only £1.30.

In addition, for non-TFL, fares aren't higher outside Z1. Z1-Z1 is the same/similar price as a two-zone non Z1-ticket (e.g., Z2-3)

Plus there are plenty of journeys within one zone.

For example:

Herne Hill - Tulse Hill - Streatham - Tooting - Haydons Road - Wimbledon - Wimbledon Chase are on a frequent, direct train used by many passengers, and all in Z3. The fare is £1.70 by NR Oyster, which is cheaper than a bus.

 

[DelW]

On the few occasions where SWR have put on a rail replacement bus within the oyster zones, I simply haven't been able to pay. I'd happily pay if they bothered to put an Oyster reader onto the bus, but I'm certainly not going to pay extra for a paper ticket when there's a worse service.

That seems like an exception to the rule, but it's more straightforward when you're dealing with things outside of a contactless zone like I am. It would genuinely never occur to me not to pay to get on any public transport service, and I'd certainly try and find some way of doing so.

For a much more rural example, I've several times been on RRBs south of Llanwtryd on the Heart of Wales line. Stations there have no ticket issuing facilities at all, so many, possibly most, passengers routinely buy their tickets from the conductor on the train. At every boarding point the bus driver had to repeat his mantra that he had "no knowledge of train fares and no equipment for issuing any sort of tickets, so please put your money away and just go and sit down". Obviously some passengers would have had pre-purchased tickets, but I think the majority travelled free each time.

 

[BazingaTribe]

For a much more rural example, I've several times been on RRBs south of Llanwtryd on the Heart of Wales line. Stations there have no ticket issuing facilities at all, so many, possibly most, passengers routinely buy their tickets from the conductor on the train. At every boarding point the bus driver had to repeat his mantra that he had "no knowledge of train fares and no equipment for issuing any sort of tickets, so please put your money away and just go and sit down". Obviously some passengers would have had pre-purchased tickets, but I think the majority travelled free each time.

Mobile tickets | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

TfW has mobile tickets available. Not the best option, granted, but good enough for this kind of thread where you're talking about needing to pay in some form to use a service.

Although they wouldn't help in London or Merseyside, a lot of people have the opportunity to pay using a phone. Not everyone, granted (to forestall the usual what-ifs) but given smartphone penetration and the share of the market e-tickets have, enough people surely should able to pay at some point and should really be doing so, if only to ensure that the railways continue to receive the appropriate amount of funding from their users as well as from government and that the money is there to ensure the railways run smoothly for their customers.

 

[DelW]

Mobile tickets | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

TfW has mobile tickets available. Not the best option, granted, but good enough for this kind of thread where you're talking about needing to pay in some form to use a service.

Although they wouldn't help in London or Merseyside, a lot of people have the opportunity to pay using a phone. Not everyone, granted (to forestall the usual what-ifs) but given smartphone penetration and the share of the market e-tickets have, enough people surely should able to pay at some point and should really be doing so, if only to ensure that the railways continue to receive the appropriate amount of funding from their users as well as from government and that the money is there to ensure the railways run smoothly for their customers.

I did say that some passengers would have had pre-purchased tickets, which would include phone tickets. But the fact remains that many HoWL passengers prefer paying the conductor, and are allowed to make that choice. Insisting on mobile tickets wouldn't work well on a route with such patchy phone coverage. (The occasions I'm referring to were unplanned bus substitutions arranged very much at the last moment).

 

[BazingaTribe]

I did say that some passengers would have had pre-purchased tickets, which would include phone tickets. But the fact remains that many HoWL passengers prefer paying the conductor, and are allowed to make that choice. Insisting on mobile tickets wouldn't work well on a route with such patchy phone coverage. (The occasions I'm referring to were unplanned bus substitutions arranged very much at the last moment).

I get that totally, as well as the patchy phone signal. My local line is pants in that respect too -- in the ten years I've had a smartphone and been commuting in that direction, it's only in the last couple of years that an additional one out of the five stops have been gated and phone signal is marginally better than it has been. Frustratingly, the one place where I can get off and phone my mum for a lift is the deepest trough on the line.

I'd hope most people would be reasonably honest, though, and pay at the first opportunity for the full journey. We can find as many loopholes as we can that people regularly get through but ultimately if you can find/have a means to pay, you really should.

 

[Gloster]

As long as you don’t get the situation that happened to me about fifteen years ago when the Lymington branch was closed for refurbishment (I have mentioned this before). I couldn’t buy a ticket because the platform at the Pier was barriered off and Wightlink dont sell local tickets (I was only going to the Town). The South West Trains employee accompanying the RRB was checking the tickets of those boarding but couldn’t herself sell me a ticket. She refused to let me on the bus without a ticket, which led to a long discussion before I finally made it quite clear that she was wrong and a complaint would go in. She did finally allow me on, but followed me to the ticket machine at Town, watched as I bought a ticket…and then walked back to the now-delayed bus without checking it.

 

[The exile]

I did say that some passengers would have had pre-purchased tickets, which would include phone tickets. But the fact remains that many HoWL passengers prefer paying the conductor, and are allowed to make that choice. Insisting on mobile tickets wouldn't work well on a route with such patchy phone coverage. (The occasions I'm referring to were unplanned bus substitutions arranged very much at the last moment).

And - as we see frequently elsewhere- in much of the country, a mobile ticket bought after departure isn’t valid!

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Very good point - never once seen revenue protection on a replacement bus, on any TOC.

I took advantage of this once when lines were closed between Kings Cross and Peterborough.
I’d travelled from London to St Albans on contactless, intending to catch a 301 bus to my destination in Hatfield, and happy to pay the £2 capped fare.
The bus, however, after being shown on the Arriva app as being ‘less than a minute away’ but running 20 minutes late, literally disappeared from the app minutes later. I can only assume the driver skipped the station call due to the forecourt being packed with RRBs.
So I just asked a driver ‘when’s the next service to Hatfield?’ and his reply was ‘it’s this one, in 10 minutes, hop on…’
Free ride. Warm coach, with USB charger point and WiFi. No evidence of a ticket asked for…