Why are the RMT so quiet on bus cuts?

[northwichcat]

Given how much fuss the RMT are making about DOO plans which aren't imminent, how come they've said and done little about the reduction in bus services which are currently happening?

 

[Lrd]

What have RMT got to do with buses? Unite is the union that most bus companies recognize.

 

[ARN556B]

What have RMT got to do with buses? Unite is the union that most bus companies recognize.

The RMT represent driving staff in a number of bus companies across the UK. Either solely or jointly with Unite. So JCollins question is entirely valid.

 

[northwichcat]

What have RMT got to do with buses? Unite is the union that most bus companies recognize.

RMT have called strikes over pay deals offered by Stagecoach buses before. Even if they aren't the biggest union for bus drivers it doesn't sound like they are doing much to oppose bus cuts (and consequently a reduction in the number of drivers required.)

 

[BestWestern]

I suspect they appreciate that there is a far greater link between the economy and bus services than there is with rail services, which are generally safeguarded. There is little that a union can realistically hope to achieve, and there is generally little difficulty in finding work as a driver anyway, even if one was to be laid off from a particular depot. As mentioned above, drivers will strike over more direct and broad issues, such as pay.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Another element, I strongly suspect, is the difference between public sector (*) and private sector trade unionism. Having been a union activist in both, I find private sector union members less keen to rock the boat: there's an awareness that if the employer goes under, so does your livelihood. The same doesn't immediately apply in the public sector.


* For the purpose of this post, I define the railway as public sector. Obviously this is not true, but as far as staff behaviour is concerned, it's true enough. If the top end of the business fails then the service will continue - maybe with new private sector people at the top, or public sector ones. But for front line workers, they will still be doing the same job in the same place for the same line manager - just as happens in the NHS, with local government reorganization, or your central government quango being brought back into a government department.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

mre to the point I doubt the RMT can paralyse bus services anywhere , unlike on the railways, as there is a pluralityof unions on the buses even if some places are mainly RMT , plus of course managers / administrators / trainers / fitters with a cat D and up to date CPC can just jump on a bus and do a service if they have a reasonable clue on the route ...

 

[northwichcat]

Having been a union activist in both, I find private sector union members less keen to rock the boat: there's an awareness that if the employer goes under, so does your livelihood. The same doesn't immediately apply in the public sector.

That might explain why they don't take direct action against the operator but as far as I'm aware they haven't even publicly commended bus service cuts or had members standing at bus stations handing out leaflets (like they've done with DOO.)

 

[northwichcat]

plus of course managers / administrators / trainers / fitters with a cat D and up to date CPC can just jump on a bus and do a service if they have a reasonable clue on the route ...

It's not unknown for managers to want to take a bus out themselves when they've got a demonstration vehicle on trial.

 

[scrapy]

Given how much fuss the RMT are making about DOO plans which aren't imminent, how come they've said and done little about the reduction in bus services which are currently happening?

RMT are only as vocal as the media allow. Bus cuts are generally very localised and unlikely to reach the national media so RMT don't have the platform to be as vocal. There are often articles about bus cuts and staffing issues in RMT newsletters but the media don't pick up on them.

The media also seem very much focused on Southern. I'm sure the RMT want the disputes on Northern and Merseyrail pushing up the news agenda but the media is very much focused on London. If there were bus cuts in London I'm sure the media would want interviews with the unions.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

It's not unknown for managers to want to take a bus out themselves when they've got a demonstration vehicle on trial.

what a surprise attention deficiet oh shiny disorder writ large ...

who deosn't want a play when there's a demo / manufacturer loan <whatever> about ...

 

[northwichcat]

RMT are only as vocal as the media allow. Bus cuts are generally very localised and unlikely to reach the national media so RMT don't have the platform to be as vocal. There are often articles about bus cuts and staffing issues in RMT newsletters but the media don't pick up on them.

The media probably don't look at the RMT newsletter but probably do look at any press releases the RMT send to them. Based on what's been put on the RMT website the majority of the press releases are rail, with other forms of transport rarely getting a mention.

The media also seem very much focused on Southern. I'm sure the RMT want the disputes on Northern and Merseyrail pushing up the news agenda but the media is very much focused on London. If there were bus cuts in London I'm sure the media would want interviews with the unions.

The RMT calling coordinated strikes for Southern, Northern and Merseyrail doesn't help in that respect. It also doesn't help that a large number of journalists based at MediaCity don't have to use Northern or Merseyrail services to get to work - the ones working for BBC Breakfast actually can't use Northern simply because Northern services don't start early enough.

 

[83G/84D]

Not related to bus service cuts however in the past few months the RMT has negotiated better pay and Terms and conditions for:-

Stagecoach Chesterfield (drivers and engineers)
Stagecoach South (Basingstoke)
TM Travel
Bluestar
First South West (Somerset)
Stagecoach Lancashire (drivers)
and Southern Vectis (Go Ahead)

So it is not just rail and shipping grades represented by the union, far from it.

 

[CatfordCat]

A few angles on this -

As others have said, the fact that something doesn't make the national news doesn't mean it isn't happening - a good illustration of this was the run-up to the 'brexit' vote when the media concentrated on some politicians (mainly the ones coming out with the most hyperbolic stuff on each side of the campaign) others did get around and talk to a lot of meetings but the media didn't take much notice (and then criticised those politicians for 'being invisible' during the campaigns)

The media in general has been fairly quiet about cuts to bus services - the occasional piece in the depths of the 'guardian' isn't really that mainstream. something that affects a lot of people, especially if many of them are middle class and in London and the south east, will be more 'news' than something that affects relatively small numbers of working class / retired people scattered around the country.

The dispute with Southern is a dispute with an employer, on which a union can lawfully take industrial action. Unions' actions over the policies of national and / or local government is more difficult. Some people are eager to criticise unions for 'playing politics' if they say anything about anything that isn't directly related to the terms and conditions of employment. Other people (or sometimes the same people) are also eager to criticise unions for 'not speaking up' about wider issues.

Bus service cuts have led to be done gradually, the loss of tendered services here and there meaning that a slight reduction in requirements can usually be absorbed by slowing recruitment rather than making redundancies.

And I suppose there's a question of whether unions and their members want to get in to dispute with an employer over a situation that's been forced on the employer as well, or whether their priority should be to ensure safeguarding of as many jobs as possible, ensuring the best deal for staff at risk of redundancy and so on.

An aside - I was surprised when I moved to an area where (then) NUR was the main union for bus workers - is there any particular reason why NUR came to represent bus workers in some areas? Was it to do with historic railway ownership or part ownership of bus companies?

 

[ac6000cw]

An aside - I was surprised when I moved to an area where (then) NUR was the main union for bus workers - is there any particular reason why NUR came to represent bus workers in some areas? Was it to do with historic railway ownership or part ownership of bus companies?

For example, the original GWR operated extensive bus services in the West Country (before they were merged into Western National in 1929 - GWR part owned that company until nationalisation of the railways). So yes, that may well be how the NUR came to represent bus workers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

For example, the original GWR operated extensive bus services in the West Country (before they were merged into Western National in 1929 - GWR part owned that company until nationalisation of the railways). So yes, that may well be how the NUR came to represent bus workers.

The ownership of various bus operators by rail firms was a natural extension of their operations and was the reason why the NUR were involved in buses. As well as the GWR ceding their bus operations to Western National, Southern National and Southern Vectis were joint ventures between National Omnibus and the Southern Railway.

My local firm was United Automobile and they were majority owned by LNER; oddly, most depots north of the Tyne were NUR branches but South were TGWU.

In the end, most of the bus ops owned by rail firms were sold to Tilling.