Why are car drivers subsidised so heavily?

[asylumxl]

True but a large percentage of business travel is undertaken during peak times. So an Off Peak Return would be useless for many business travellers.

Another problem is that many business trips are done on short notice so booking Advance tickets (if available) may not elicit a large saving over the Anytime fare.

Actually, I would say a lot of people prefer traveling the day before and staying in a hotel for morning meetings, especially when you consider this allows for any possible disruption. This is certainly true of people I know, but different strokes for different folks.

I'm sure the £110 difference could get you a night in a fairly decent hotel most places.

 

[Roverman]

Is Anme an ex Transport Minister

 

[Oswyntail]

I have no problem with use of cars or trains being suitably compensated, for appropriate use. However, I would like to see:-

• employers held to be equally liable for accidents involving cars being driven on business
• tachometers (or whatever they are called) fitted to company cars.

The only accident I have been involved in was caused by a company car driver who had driven from Reading to Sterling after work for an evening meeting which went on after midnight, then was driving back south for another meeting the next day. The accident occurred at 07:30 at Chesterfield. This businessman's schedule was his usual weekly turn. His employers expected it of him.

 

[edwin_m]

I have no problem with use of cars or trains being suitably compensated, for appropriate use. However, I would like to see:-

• employers held to be equally liable for accidents involving cars being driven on business
• tachometers (or whatever they are called) fitted to company cars.

The only accident I have been involved in was caused by a company car driver who had driven from Reading to Sterling after work for an evening meeting which went on after midnight, then was driving back south for another meeting the next day. The accident occurred at 07:30 at Chesterfield. This businessman's schedule was his usual weekly turn. His employers expected it of him.

An interesting suggestion. I was reading a document on the RSSB website about risk to railway people when travelling by road, which made the point that car use for business is totally unregulated, unlike buses and lorries. An ex-colleague* of mine, who otherwise seemed quite safety conscious, used to boast about driving from northern Cheshire to western Devon in three hours.

I'm not sure that tachographs are necessary, as if the police have a mind to they can pull the records of the inevitable mobile phone to provide evidence of position over time as well as any calls or texts while in motion. Employers who expect their staff to drive at dangerous speeds or for excessive hours would be open to prosecution under Health and Safety at Work Act, although travel between home and a single normal place of work is not covered by employment legislation.

*not, as far as I know, deceased, though I wouldn't be surprised!

 

[richw]

. An ex-colleague* of mine, who otherwise seemed quite safety conscious, used to boast about driving from northern Cheshire to western Devon in three hours.

Plymouth to Chester is 291 miles, 97mph average, dual carriageway/ motorway all of the way so realistic although not illegal. I don't drive this way but I know people who do, and I was once a passenger to a driver who did Gatwick South Terminal car park to Falmouth Cornwall in 3 1/2 hours, a journey of approx. 300 miles.

A few company car drivers I know with clean licences but willing to risk always speak of their 99mph rule as they think they know anything over 100mph will see them almost guaranteed to be banned whereas 8/10 times 99mph will get a fixed penalty. I do not condone this speed in anyway, although the high mile company car drivers seem to know their way around the legal system and what they can get away with.

 

[edwin_m]

Plymouth to Chester is 291 miles, 97mph average, dual carriageway/ motorway all of the way so realistic although not illegal.

I think you mean "not legal"...

If anyone is looking for a genuinely unfair subsidy to car drivers how about the fact that season tickets for car parking can be paid out of pre-tax pay by salary sacrifice, but leaving aside a loophole which may by now have been closed, season tickets for commuting by public transport can't.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is Anme an ex Transport Minister

I have found that ANME is the acronym used to describe the Association for Natural Medicine in Europe, amongst others.

 

[GB]

I have no problem with use of cars or trains being suitably compensated, for appropriate use. However, I would like to see:-

employers held to be equally liable for accidents involving cars being driven on business

Liable in which way? If it is deemed your fault you will probably get the book thrown at you either by the Police if they are involved or your company anyway.

If your talking financial then unless you were driving like a complete moron I think expecting the employee to foot the bill is a slipery slope....isn't that why buisnesses have insurance?

tachometers (or whatever they are called) fitted to company cars.

All our company vehicles are tracked. They can see exactly who is driving, where they are, what speed your doing, what gear your in and how fast you take corners etc etc

 

[185]

Motorists should get nothing. I pay for my own Pepsi Max, and my pedal bike works out at 330ml to about 20 miles. :P

 

[Roverman]

Liable in which way? If it is deemed your fault you will probably get the book thrown at you either by the Police if they are involved or your company anyway.

If your talking financial then unless you were driving like a complete moron I think expecting the employee to foot the bill is a slippery slope....isn't that why businesses have insurance?



All our company vehicles are tracked. They can see exactly who is driving, where they are, what speed your doing, what gear your in and how fast you take corners etc etc

The trouble is (and I speak of experience on this) drivers of company vehicles sometimes have a 'couldn't care less attitude' as its not their car and not their NCB.
The driver who hit me worked for Enterprise rentals, he was driving a Merc flatbed back to the depot. He pulled into my lane and I ended up in the central reservation, thankfully at a section without armco. For 2 years my insurance claim was 'on hold' because he simply didn't reply to letters, their insurance company said they couldn't proceed until they spoke to him. He resigned from Enterprise and they wouldn't pass on any letters. The Police's evidence, although enough to prosecute him in a Court of Law was summarily disregarded by both my insurer and those of his employer as it wasn't considered 'good enough' to count as him admitting liability!

It was made pretty clear to me that had this been a private car owner who stood to lose his NCB and his car it would have been a lot easier to resolve.

 

[Donny Dave]

Why are car drivers subsidised so heavily?

Depends how you define subsidised (yes, I know in your post you have used the example of people using their cars on company business).

Let's have a look at all the madatory costs (and the taxes involved) a motorist has to pay first ....

If you buy a new car, you have to pay VAT on that (20% of the cost).

You need insurance (depending on your age and NCB, this can vary a lot). There's an insurance premium tax in there as well (5%). Oh you need road tax as well (sorry Yorkie, I meant Vehicle Excise Duty ). This varies from car to car.

Then your petrol/diesel. Not only do you pay fuel duty on that, it's then topped off by VAT!

The last mandatory expense is the annual MOT. This can be upto £54.85 (price capped by the government) (source for test fees).

Then as others have stated, you have servicing, repairs and depreciation to factor in. So I think it's very fair that people can claim back some money for using their car on company business.

The only way around that is to ban claims for travel expenses all together, no matter what mode of transport ....

 

[jrhilton]

Motorists should get nothing. I pay for my own Pepsi Max, and my pedal bike works out at 330ml to about 20 miles. :P

Make sure you claim your 20p per mile for cycling business miles either from your employer or on your tax return, that should cover the Pepsi Max nicely.

The fact that HMRC allow you to claim 45p per mile is a good indication the true cost is much higher in almost all cases (I'm sure the AA used to say it was about 50p per mile and that was years ago). I think the key point is very few people add up the total cost of car ownership over a year, yet alone the whole period of ownership of the vehicle. In reality people who buy new cars aren't making money, the only people who may are those who buy second hand or have an old depreciated car that doesn't need much maintenance with the extra miles put on.

I used to do lots of miles and it felt like you are making money until you factor in the extra depreciation and servicing, especially in today used car market. A while back I worked out depreciation per mile on my car and it was about 52p so far, so HMRC are not subsidising me. If I keep the car for a long time the figure will go down but costs will increase of course.

 

[WelshBluebird]

True but a large percentage of business travel is undertaken during peak times. So an Off Peak Return would be useless for many business travellers.

Another problem is that many business trips are done on short notice so booking Advance tickets (if available) may not elicit a large saving over the Anytime fare.

Also, some business trips involve multiple people. If someone drives, then at least some of those can travel in the same car. If travelling by public transport, multiple tickets have to be bought.

It's interesting to ask why companies pay these rates at all, when public transport is so much cheaper.

Because for many places, driving is a hell of a lot quicker and easier than using public transport.

 

[gordonthemoron]

AFAIR the HMRC rates have been the same since the 1980s at least

 

[richw]

AFAIR the HMRC rates have been the same since the 1980s at least

They last changed in 2010/11 and prior to that 2002/03

2002/03 - 2010/11
Cars and vans 40p
Motorcycles 24p
Cycles 20p

2010/11 - present

Cars and vans 45p
Motorcycles 24p
Cycles 20p

The rate for cars above is the first 10000 miles, after 10000 miles it reduces to 25p a mile. Motorcycles and cycles remain unchanged after 10000 miles.

 

[GB]

deleted

 

[richw]

Its also classed as a second income if you go over a set amount. So someone racking up £1000s upon £1000s will have to pay TAX and NIC on it.

Over 10000 miles I believe as that is when you get 25p instead of 45p a mile. I think the remaining 20p is the tax on the lower rate,

 

[jon0844]

I really don't think anyone can become well off from claiming car mileage, even if they have an old car or a new one that has incredible mpg and low service costs.

It certainly isn't a subsidy in my mind.

 

[gordonthemoron]

it was 40p for cars in the 80s AFAIR, dunno about motorbikes & cycles

 

[jon0844]

I remember moaning about paying 55p a litre for petrol in the 90s, and now it's what - £1.30-£1.35 a litre?

Clearly the 40p allowance was worth a fair bit more back in the 80s than it is now, even if it has since gone up by 5p.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I worked for one company which had company cars which we used sometimes (SAAB 900s), we were only paid 9p per mile which didn't even cover the petrol, as the cars did less than 30mpg

 

[richw]

I worked for one company which had company cars which we used sometimes (SAAB 900s), we were only paid 9p per mile which didn't even cover the petrol, as the cars did less than 30mpg

The above rates aren't applicable for company cars. Company Cars should be reimbursed at the price of fuel only. If my company give us a hire car we just have to produce a fuel receipt for the journey, which must be near the end of journey, they will also reimburse intermediate fills.