What should be allowed under EAPC (Electric Assist Pedal Cycle) rules?

[styles]

Here is research from Victoria Australia https://www.cyclehelmets.org/1093.html

When compulsory helmet wearing was introduced in Victoria the number of head injuries fell by 40%. But so did the number of non-head injuries

From the same page:

The gains in pedestrian safety are attributed to road safety campaigns to discourage speeding and drink-driving (introduced at almost the same time as the cycle helmet law). Assuming cyclists and pedestrians benefitted similarly from these campaigns, it is not possible to assign any positive outcome to the helmet law.

 

[Meerkat]

IIRC in places where they made helmets compulsory cycling rates dropped by so much that the loss of health benefits from the exercise were more than the health savings from fewer injuries. And fewer cyclists makes it more dangerous for those remaining.

 

[Krokodil]

I've been in Vilnius for the last couple of days. The place is absolutely infested with delivery riders, riding fat-tyred folding ebikes, most of which have been jailbroken. As per the UK the riders are not of an exactly local origin. Behaviour is pretty bad, with pavement riding and even the use of horns to indicate impatience. Hopefully there will eventually be a crackdown on these firms.

In the UK you'd have thought that the IR35 changes would have done something about the gig economy.

 

[jon0844]

There is apparently one fire in London every two days attributed to e-scooters or e-bikes, reportedly mostly kit that isn't approved for sale (so homegrown conversions).

Assuming that is the case and is repeated in other big towns and cities then something has to be done to properly regulate the sales of these bikes and scooters - or the importation of batteries from abroad (or from anywhere).

 

[Jim the Jim]

Is there any evidence of an actual impact from illegal ebikes that nessecites such a harsh and expensive response? Yes ideally their should be better regulation, but i don't think mass criminalising people, including ones that might not even be using an ebike, is something necessary.

It's not just about danger, it's also about the general annoyance of having to put up with half a dozen of the things during the course of a five-minute walk in the park. And it must be worse if you're there with dogs or small children. Parks are not intended or designed as a place for commercial transport, why should thry be used as such?

(I don't think I would want to ban non-electric commercial bikes in parks though; these are not generally such a problem.)

 

[renegademaster]

It's not just about danger, it's also about the general annoyance of having to put up with half a dozen of the things during the course of a five-minute walk in the park. And it must be worse if you're there with dogs or small children. Parks are not intended or designed as a place for commercial transport, why should thry be used as such?

(I don't think I would want to ban non-electric commercial bikes in parks though; these are not generally such a problem.)

Cycling in pedestrian areas is already an offence

 

[jon0844]

Cycling in pedestrian areas is already an offence

The lack of enforcement is perhaps why we have such a problem now.

I'm all for allowing assisted bikes anywhere a normal bike can go, but faster (actual) e-bikes; mopeds or motorcycles should be registered like an ICE version. They should stay on the road only. Given their ability to keep up with traffic, they're likely safer in that environment than an EAPC, and the rider would have some training too.

We haven't suddenly allowed motorbikes to race through pedestrianised areas and parks, or use pavements, and get onto trains. Why are we allowing electric bikes to do it?

If we don't sort it, as I said before, we'll end up with all battery powered bikes banned all over as a knee jerk reaction to what's going on.

 

[bananas]

I don't really see the safety reason why 15mph not pedalling is more dangerous in any substantive way than 15mph pedalling

I think it’s more dangerous because, when pedalling, accelerating is much slower, and it takes conscious and physical effort to maintain a high speed, so you’re much more likely to slow down in areas with pedestrians or other hazards, compared to a super-accelerating ebike which will continue at its maximum speed as long as you keep barely pedalling, or keep holding down the button.

Another point is that heavier bikes will also do more damage in a collision at the same speed, and they tend to be less steerable.

 

[3rd rail land]

It's not just about danger, it's also about the general annoyance of having to put up with half a dozen of the things during the course of a five-minute walk in the park. And it must be worse if you're there with dogs or small children. Parks are not intended or designed as a place for commercial transport, why should they be used as such?

(I don't think I would want to ban non-electric commercial bikes in parks though; these are not generally such a problem.)

I completely agree about having to put up with several ebikes in a short space of time however in reality who do you expect to enforce the rules on cyclists who cycle in parts of parks they are not allowed? What would the penalty be?

 

[styles]

I completely agree about having to put up with several ebikes in a short space of time however in reality who do you expect to enforce the rules on cyclists who cycle in parts of parks they are not allowed? What would the penalty be?

It would need Royal Parks, police or local authority enforcement officers, and a set of bylaws to have been passed. The penalty for most Royal Parks bylaws offences is I believe £60. In the London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham the penalty is being removed from the grounds, or a fine of up to level 2 on the standard scale (currently £500). In Fife, the penalty is removal from the park, prohibition from entering in the future, or a fine of up to level 2 on the standard scale (currently £500).

Of course, you've got to act like a right twonk for the council/police to ask the CPS to authorise charges which then go on to result in a fine of up to £500. Most likely you'll be told to leave and not come back for the rest of the day.

 

[Harpo]

Driving this week, I noticed what I thought was a moped overtaking the cars behind me. When it flashed past me at around 40mph I realised it was an electric cycle. No numberplate or indicators/lights of course, and a hooded rider. The chosen and silent delivery tool for more than just food I’m told.

 

[Krokodil]

Driving this week, I noticed what I thought was a moped overtaking the cars behind me. When it flashed past me at around 40mph I realised it was an electric cycle. No numberplate or indicators/lights of course, and a hooded rider. The chosen and silent delivery tool for more than just food I’m told.

I was crossing a street in Milan yesterday and there was an escooter thundering down the protected bike lane at a considerable speed. He was wearing a full-face helmet but there is no way the scooter was legal

 

[Bikeman78]

You can drive a 55mph 125cc with just a CBT and they aren't hard to pass. Plus I think the police do not have an easy way of enforcing you actually having one, since it's still on an archaic paper based system and can't be linked to your licence or registration number, nor are you obliged to have it on you. At least that's what I heard from a CBT assessor.

Unless riding like a nutter, the chances of being stopped and questioned are tiny. I have only been stopped on my push bike once in 35 years. Never in my car. In theory, an unlicensed person could drive around undetected in my car for months or years, so long as they don't attract attention. An ANPR camera won't flag anything up because tax, MOT and insurance are all up to date. I'd imagine the same applies to mopeds and motorbikes.

 

[styles]

Unless riding like a nutter, the chances of being stopped and questioned are tiny. I have only been stopped on my push bike once in 35 years. Never in my car. In theory, an unlicensed person could drive around undetected in my car for months or years, so long as they don't attract attention. An ANPR camera won't flag anything up because tax, MOT and insurance are all up to date. I'd imagine the same applies to mopeds and motorbikes.

Quite.

There's a million uninsured drivers in the UK, and that's with the ANPR technology and shared databases we have.

Think how many people jump into the driving seat of a friend or family member's car. Without cameras on the strategic road network which match drivers with a DVLA drivers' database, and then cross-reference that with a shared insurance database, you're not going to be caught driving without insurance, unless you drive like a womble.

Even if this tech was approved (and I suspect there'd be enough opposition to make it political suicide), it would be about a decade away.