What is "the vicinity of the driving cab"?

[357]

When the driver and guard came to assist me out of the toilet I was locked in, would he have contacted control first as he would be well out of the cab, and also stationary in the station for a few mins longer than anticipated?

Yes, absolutely

 

[TreacleMiller]

When the driver and guard came to assist me out of the toilet I was locked in, would he have contacted control first as he would be well out of the cab, and also stationary in the station for a few mins longer than anticipated?

Yes.

 

[CE142]

If you want to try and put a new 'rule' in place there's nothing more certain than Traincrew will blow that new rule apart....

 

[Spartacus]

It's fairly likely that the reasoning behind the new instruction is perfectly sound, as it was intended.

However, it wouldn't be the first occasion when someone has put out a notice, but because of their, how should we put it diplomatically, less than competent use of written English, has put something out which is just plain incorrect. I've seen cases before now where one single word (even in one case a single letter!) put in - or missing from - a notice or procedure in error has changed the whole meaning of the instruction and resulted in confusion.

It seems reasonably likely as it has been described that something similar has occurred on this occasion too. If enough people drop your friendly safety or operations standards team an email they'll be able to clarify what was intended.

Not entirely unlike one I was told from the early days of AHBs, notice for road users to 'wait here while the gates are lowered' which caused many to wait until the barriers had lowered then weave through them, interpreting 'while' as 'until'.

To me though this involves someone putting out the notice who doesn't have a clue over what the job can entail. Usually nipped in the bud by any consultation with anyone in the know, but if it's a kneejerk to the RAIB report has probably skipped that.

 

[dk1]

A few years back we received an instruction as drivers not to help any passengers with bikes by opening the DVT cargo doors instead making them wait for platform staff or for the guard to walk the length of the train. This was all due to the signaller trying to contact the driver via the GSM-R to take the road back but he couldn’t be immediately contacted as was assisting the cyclist. Was just unlucky really as we had always done it & regularly left the cab to use the toilet on the first vehicle behind at stations.

Needless to say we continued to use the WC & soon slipped back into our old ways to keep the train to time.

 

[2392]

Be intersting at a big/junction station, like say Newcastle Central or Carlisle Citidel. Which are both junction stations, witb trains from all over the place. What happens with regards to crew changes they usually happen at such stations. It wouldn't IMO be such a prblem at a lesser statio like say Hexham, Seahm or Hartlepool. Though in these days of centrally based "power box" that control ever larger sections of the network the 'phone would be constantly ringing off the hook, with this that and the other driver of said trains reporting in for whatever reason.

 

[43066]

What happens with regards to crew changes they usually happen at such stations.

These are factored into the timetable and happen pretty quickly (generally the driver being relieved leaves his key in the desk and takes a key from his relief). There would be no need to contact the signaller unless the relief driver wasn’t present.

 

[172007]

We all use our own keys, plus some have personalised brass keys that cost £50 odd quid a pop.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Feb 2023 ==

Question for signallers.







I was told that a signaller can call the train and talk through the trains PA into the saloons. Is this not the case. If the signaller had done this at Worthing then the conductor may well have heard and investigated

 

[357]

We all use our own keys, plus some have personalised brass keys that cost £50 odd quid a pop

Your depot must have some real old school drivers. I've never known a mainline driver use one of those brass keys or want to keep their "personal" key (apart from during covid)

 

[greatkingrat]

I was told that a signaller can call the train and talk through the trains PA into the saloons. Is this not the case. If the signaller had done this at Worthing then the conductor may well have heard and investigated

It is possible on modern trains. However the train concerned was a class 313 which is 45 years old and may not have that facility (unless it has been retrofitted at some point).

 

[cin88]

We all use our own keys, plus some have personalised brass keys that cost £50 odd quid a pop.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Feb 2023 ==

Question for signallers.







I was told that a signaller can call the train and talk through the trains PA into the saloons. Is this not the case. If the signaller had done this at Worthing then the conductor may well have heard and investigated

We can directly call the PA but we're only supposed to do so in response to a DSD (Driver Safety Device) alarm if the driver doesn't respond to the urgent call that we first make in that situation.

 

[endofthetunnel]

There is an update in the most recent GSMR guides that allows us signallers to call PAs when we can’t contact the driver. Personally I’ve only used it once, and it surprised the driver that we could do it! It may have even come about post the incident in question.

 

[cin88]

There is an update in the most recent GSMR guides that allows us signallers to call PAs when we can’t contact the driver. Personally I’ve only used it once, and it surprised the driver that we could do it! It may have even come about post the incident in question.

I always thought it a bit absurd that we couldn't except for when the DSD has gone off prior to that update (which I had forgotten about, 8 weeks off will do that to you).

I doubt anyone other than the most overly officious of managers would have pulled us up for using a PA call to locate a driver given that it would be us taking all reasonable steps to ensure the safe operation of trains in our area of control. That would be the argument i'd make if they tried to do so anyway.

 

[357]

At my TOC, Control now have the ability to make PA announcements via the GSMR. I've not seen it happen yet personally, but I believe they are supposed to be doing it during disruption.

 

[jon0844]

At my TOC, Control now have the ability to make PA announcements via the GSMR. I've not seen it happen yet personally, but I believe they are supposed to be doing it during disruption.

They can do similar over the CIS at stations to request a member of staff to call control.

 

[380101]

At my TOC, Control now have the ability to make PA announcements via the GSMR. I've not seen it happen yet personally, but I believe they are supposed to be doing it during disruption.

They do it fairly regularly in my TOC on the electric DOO services. They call us up first on GSM-R to ask if it's okay first before they do it. Almost not worth their while doing it though, as it's not very clear or loud and the passengers ignore it just like all the other PA announcements!