Wearing a "railway uniform" to fare evade ?

[pitdiver]

A few years ago when I was working for LUL I got off a train at Watford Jct. I was in uniform. I heard a female voice say " Excuse me Porter can you carry my bag" I. did excuse myself saying I wasn't on duty

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have the opposite problem, I commute by train mostly into a major station and my uniform looks a bit like Transpennine’s, so I get asked for directions and asked about tickets a lot! I am usually happy to help, slightly more knowledgeable than the average traveller and armed with RealTimeTrains.

I've had this a few times.

One was 20 odd years ago, I randomly met my sister at Preston station while waiting for a (then) Virgin to Euston which as it started there (in the past they didn't all go through to Glasgow) was standing in platform 3. So I stood next to the open door keeping an eye on my seat and bags talking to her. I was wearing a blue shirt and tie, she was wearing a red puffa jacket - so we looked for all the world like members of First North Western and Virgin staff. Therefore we were asked lots of questions about other trains, most of which I could fortunately answer with a quick "we're not actually staff though".

More recently, also wearing a blue shirt (no tie this time) and my blue soft-shell I was mistaken for Chiltern staff on board a train at Marylebone, though that was more a comment I overheard from some scally* along the lines of "we'd better not do that, he works for them" (I can't remember the exact wording). No idea what it was they were planning on doing but it doesn't sound like it was something they should have been!

* They do have them in genteel Chilternland you know

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I've had this a few times.

One was 20 odd years ago, I randomly met my sister at Preston station while waiting for a (then) Virgin to Euston which as it started there (in the past they didn't all go through to Glasgow) was standing in platform 3. So I stood next to the open door keeping an eye on my seat and bags talking to her. I was wearing a blue shirt and tie, she was wearing a red puffa jacket - so we looked for all the world like members of First North Western and Virgin staff. Therefore we were asked lots of questions about other trains, most of which I could fortunately answer with a quick "we're not actually staff though".

More recently, also wearing a blue shirt (no tie this time) and my blue soft-shell I was mistaken for Chiltern staff on board a train at Marylebone, though that was more a comment I overheard from some scally* along the lines of "we'd better not do that, he works for them" (I can't remember the exact wording). No idea what it was they were planning on doing but it doesn't sound like it was something they should have been!

* They do have them in genteel Chilternland you know

It's now 28 years since I worked for the railway (IT, so never in a uniform-wearing or customer-facing role). Although it happens less than it used to, I still get asked for help by lost travellers.

I suspect it's the same for many of us on this forum: we look like we know what we're doing, so people think we might be able to help them.

 

[Haywain]

I still get asked for help by lost travellers.

Happened to me long before I worked on the railway, and still happens now after my railway employment has ended. I was once asked to assist someone with their bags when I was walking through a major London station wearing a t-shirt and shorts and holding hands with Mrs H!

 

[bramling]

It's now 28 years since I worked for the railway (IT, so never in a uniform-wearing or customer-facing role). Although it happens less than it used to, I still get asked for help by lost travellers.

I suspect it's the same for many of us on this forum: we look like we know what we're doing, so people think we might be able to help them.

I don’t mind assisting people sometimes, but especially during disruption I get rather fed up with it. Those who arrogantly *demand* assistance will find themselves getting either short shrift, or in the worst cases being given deliberately incorrect information ideally involving a lengthy walk, giving them time to perhaps reflect on their ignorance.

 

[Gloster]

I was once asked and was able to answer a question when I was wearing an old BR signalman’s jacket. This was on Colmar station in France.

I also got asked a question by a woman on Southampton station who then gave me a mouthful because I couldn’t answer it. She then said that she would complain, so I just told that I was self-employed and her complaint was dismissed.

 

[_toommm_]

Happened to me long before I worked on the railway, and still happens now after my railway employment has ended. I was once asked to assist someone with their bags when I was walking through a major London station wearing a t-shirt and shorts and holding hands with Mrs H!

Same happened with me, wearing a suit on platforms 13 and 14 at Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[MalaiseForever]

I work for Network Rail and left my lanyard on after rushing from the Glasgow office to get the train to Crewe. Ticket check 10 minutes in and I was duly upgraded to 1st without even realising why until I got there!

Similarly, I had a meeting in New Street but after was travelling to Cornwall for a holiday. Crosscountry train manager let me sneak a free seat in first without even asking.

 

[Segedunum]

Same happened with me, wearing a suit on platforms 13 and 14 at Manchester Piccadilly.

I once had a uni lanyard on once when I was waiting on Picc 13/14. An older lady popped her head out the door of a train and asked if I was her Passenger Assist!

 

[londonbridge]

In my previous supermarket job I would be on my lunch break and go up the high street to HMV, Boots, WH Smith or wherever to pick up whatever I was buying, more than once I had people stopping me asking for help, they tended to just see a uniform without realising it was from another company and not from the store I happened be in at the time.

 

[Broken Viking]

...I was asked more often than not for ID or a diagram, the staff were usually so welcoming I'm surprised they didn't ask for my passport when I was on their miniature Eurostar set

I ended up on one of those myself once (And to this day deeply regret not going for every single 373/3 LNER had in-fleet ) and identifying it as a TGV TransManche from the interior I was glad I was only going from Donny to Leeds. I might've been travelling to Kleines Deutschland in Vereinigtes Königreich (Little Germany in the UK a.k.a. Bradford) but I started to get scared because I wasn't carrying my passport!

A few years ago when I was working for LUL I got off a train at Watford Jct. I was in uniform. I heard a female voice say " Excuse me Porter can you carry my bag". I did excuse myself saying I wasn't on duty

I've found myself helping fellow Eurostar passengers with baggage, routeing and boarding assistance in the past, sometimes upon the request of those passengers. I've checked every Eurostar policy document that's available to members of the public, and nowhere does it say that Eurostar company uniform features shorts, Metal band t-shirts and studded bracers!

I agree also, that 1st class service improves immeasurably too. I also feel that similar happens it you dress smartly compared to casual in 1st.

I've actually found casual wear and being polite to the staff gets you way more than being dressed smart (although I did both usually when travelling on business to Londonland).

When dressed casual, I’ve been automatically directed to STD when boarding in 1st, or been treated with hostility until after a thorough inspection of my ticket has occurred. However, I’ve as many if not more positive experiences in First, and I’ve travelled a lot so there are always going to be a small amount of outliers. I agree about being friendly and polite being key.

My most poignant experience of FC travel was one occasion when VT upgraded my Advance Std ticket to Advance First (They were "Airdropping" free upgrades around that time) and I decided to dress for the occasion. In my case this didn't only mean some of the best condition Metal gear I had and a fairly smart leather waistcoat, but also the full-spike bracers and gloves I used to be well known for. This resulted in two amusing outcomes

1. A bunch of suits sat at the opposite end of the carriage casting very evil looks in my direction, and having an animated-looking discussion with the Guard whilst pointing in my direction, and
2. The Guard inspecting my ticket then asking to borrow it for a moment, then walking back up the coach to show the snobby-nosed group that I was indeed an FC ticket holder. They quietened down a lot and showed rather ruddy faces after that...

If travelling FC today you're much more likely to find me in more sedate clothing (Curse this whole ageing thing! ) but with the pandemic having turned me full introvert and unable to cope with people anymore, you're much more likely to find me standing in the FC vestibule rather than in a seat...

Slightly different example, but I'm convinced that I once got out of a ticket check because I showed a GWR touch smartcard (it was in the same wallet as another smartcard I actually wanted them to scan). As it has a photo I can see why it might look a bit like an employee ID. This was obviously not on a GWR train, quite some distance away from the nearest one in fact

Honestly, I've had many ticket inspectors simply move on when showing my GTR Key smartcard, where they were otherwise checking E-Tickets and paper tickets. It could well have been that they couldn't be bothered to scan the smartcard!

Technically speaking, any ITSO-compliant pass should be able to hold any TOCs tickets, including using a SE pass to carry ScotRail tickets on the Fort William route or similar. But what you say about photo-bearing passes is rather interesting indeed.

With the TSI meaning Irish passes are likely also ITSO compatible (So they can be used on NIR) I wonder what might happen if I started loading my UK tickets onto my photo-bearing TfI Leap card?

Also, that makes me think: I really need to probe UK eTicket compatibility with members of my RF pass collection. Prior experience has shown TfL equipment can recognise San-Francisco Clipper cards and vice-versa (Just don't try using Oyster to board a Muni tram, like I once did! ) and I have a whole range of passes (Mostly U.S.) I keep meaning to play around with. I know I'm going to be in tears the next time I find myself handling my Consortico de Transportes Madrid pass, though...

I've a feeling that the father is ex-BR. No idea if the reason that he doesn't have boxes is an innocent one or not.

Parental exclusion or prejudice can effect that. I lost my PRIV-75 after my stronger gravitation toward persons of my own gender started to be noticed...

Also, when travelling in 1st, one's service is improved somewhat when you're 'family'.

I wish I was part of a family...

 

[Nym]

I wish I was part of a family...

In terms of “railway family” I left it a long time ago as far as many are concerned…

In terms of your other PRIV75 implications. All families matter and I hope you can find or have found your own.

 

[Krokodil]

Parental exclusion or prejudice can effect that. I lost my PRIV-75 after my stronger gravitation toward persons of my own gender started to be noticed...

No, I was more thinking about why the father doesn‘t have boxes. The sons are much too old for juvenile dependant passes.

 

[Broken Viking]

No, I was more thinking about why the father doesn‘t have boxes. The sons are much too old for juvenile dependant passes.

AFAIK not all PRIVs have boxes. My PRIV-75 (BR-grandfathered LUL dependent) was taken from me in 1998 so it's been a long time since I've held one, but it (And my parents ones) had unlimited use and didn't have boxes at all. It's possible this chap has the same type of pass.

Throughout all my time; The only pass I've had with boxes was a West Mids 3-in-7 Day Ranger. AFAIK I was one of very few passengers who actually filled the boxes in before commencing their first journey of the day!

 

[Krokodil]

It's possible this chap has the same type of pass.

Well he didn't, because he was fraudulently using a rover ticket hundreds of miles out of area.

 

[Broken Viking]

Well he didn't, because he was fraudulently using a rover ticket hundreds of miles out of area.

Ah, it looks like some of the points of that incident didn't register fully on my mind. If this person was engaging in fraudulent use of tickets (And probably not for the first time) perhaps his PRIV benefits had been revoked for prior misuse?

We're all familiar with the "business" of reselling used one-day travelcards. If people will beg for used travelcards from passengers and then resell them for a profit, what would prevent a "chancer' with PRIV benefits attempting the same thing? The SOS EUS-GLC is a fairly hefty £208,50 (According to RUKs ticketing partner) so the temptation to sell such a ticket for, say, £150,- and pocket the £97,85 difference (The PRIV-75 fare will be £52,15) is probably going to be irresistible for some people, especially in the present high-price climate.

Come to think of it, I haven't even seen a PRIV since before the pandemic. Haven't they moved these over to ITSO smartcards with the users name and photograph on them by now? (If not, that would be my definite advice. It also means PRIVs could be bought from self-service machines provided the ticket is always loaded onto the PRIV card to which the sale was authorised.)

 

[Krokodil]

Come to think of it, I haven't even seen a PRIV since before the pandemic. Haven't they moved these over to ITSO smartcards with the users name and photograph on them by now?

Non-safeguarded Priv cards now have a photo so don't need to be shown with an ID any more but are not smartcards. Only passes (those granting free travel such as Gold/Silver and Residential passes, along with TOC IDs and Duty Travel cards are on ITSO cards so that they can open gatelines in the relevant area of validity.

 

[Broken Viking]

Non-safeguarded Priv cards now have a photo so don't need to be shown with an ID any more but are not smartcards.

Our PRIVs were paired to BR photocards and had to be presented together to be valid, same procedure as for using personalised tickets (Zeitkarten usw) on the Hamburger Verkehrsverbund. Bear in mind though that this was a lot more efficient than printing a PRIV with the photo on with the technology of the time, so would have to be seen as period appropriate.

Only passes (those granting free travel such as Gold/Silver and Residential passes, along with TOC IDs and Duty Travel cards are on ITSO cards so that they can open gatelines in the relevant area of validity.

I was one of the first batch of LUL staff to have Oyster-capable staff passes (We were the "canary" group for testing Oyster prior to pax roll-out) which were basically coded with an "Access all areas" authority - They'd operate any gateline where TfL tickets were valid. These had our photos and handwritten signature on them to prevent misuse, but it was interesting to note (Remembering a few cases where we were passing gatelines as a staff group so employed a "tapper" to speed things up) there was no pass-back detection for them.

I never dumped mine (I wish I had; The LT Museum would've found a first-gen staff Oyster dump academically useful) but the simplistic operation of MiFare Classic chips meant the coding wouldn't have been particularly intricate. They were also all-offline devices (A dial-up connection to every TfL gateline? In 2001?!? ) so the concept of offloading the heavy authentication work to an off-site server and just capturing/running the card UUID would not have worked.