Waterloo to southampton

[pte]

I have a season ticket for London to Horsham but need to go Southampton after work from London to see my daughters photography show. There are trains from Horsham to Southampton, but it would be much quicker from London to go direct from Waterloo to Southampton. As I have a season can I just buy a ticket from Horsham to Southampton even though the fastest direct trains dont go through Horsham but on the Woking line? or do I have to get a London to Southampton single costing £31.70?

pte

 

[Oracle]

How are you getting back? Stupid question I know but you quote a single fare.

I was going to suggest that if you go via the direct route down the main then your season would be valid only as far as Clapham Junction.

Otherwise I would suggest going via Southern and excessing from Horsham. However, I am no expert so wait to see what others suggest.

As an aside, my son did Photography at our local FE college and I was amazed at his portfolio..he had previously got a certificate in Photoshop and the experience helped him with the photo manipulation requirement of his coursework. Congrats to your daughter on her show!

 

[pte]

sorry I should have said that my wife will meet me in Southampton and drive us home. I was thinking worst case I would get a ticket from Clapham Junct to Southampton Central costing £27.
Thanks for the congrats, I am looking forward to seeing her show. She is two years into a 3 year Photography degree at Solent Uni, I am very envious actually.
Thanks
pte

 

[Oracle]

Southampton Solent Uni, that was of course Southampton Institute...sounds a tough course!

At least it's a short walk up from Central to the Uni. Unless She Who Must Be Obeyed can pick you up!

 

[philjo]

Is your season ticket an annual ticket ?
If it is an annual then you can get the 34% gold card discount reducing the fare to around £18.

 

[John @ home]

As I have a season can I just buy a ticket from Horsham to Southampton even though the fastest direct trains dont go through Horsham but on the Woking line?

No.

do I have to get a London to Southampton single costing £31.70?

No.

A London - Horsham season ticket is valid via Woking, Guildford and Leatherhead - see National Routeing Guide maps PD+SC.

Therefore you can use your season ticket London - Woking and you just need to buy a Woking - Southampton single. This reduces the cost to £19.60. (As a comparison, the Horsham - Southampton via Havant single fare is £22.50 in the weekday morning peak and £17.10 after 0859 and at weekends.) Your London - Southampton train does not need to stop at Woking.

Assuming you're travelling after 1000, if you have an annual season ticket, issued as a Gold Card, this reduces the £19.60 cost to £12.95. If your season ticket is not an annual one, a £25 Network Railcard, available to any adult, would be valid for a year and reduce this ticket to £13 Monday - Friday or £12.95 at weekends.

 

[pte]

Thanks everyone for your help, it has saved me a few bob.

Cheers

Paul

 

[paul1609]

If you can skive off work early try Megatrain.
There are often £6 tickets available on the the 14.39 Waterloo to Southampton the day before travel.

 

[tony_mac]

A London - Horsham season ticket is valid via Woking, Guildford and Epsom - see National Routeing Guide maps PD+SC.

Wouldn't that involve doubling-back through Leatherhead?

 

[Oracle]

I was initially wondering if the season was valid via Guildford...in which case does taking the Portsmouth Direct to Cosham or Fratton and changing make any financial sense? However I discounted it as it seemed unlikely to be a valid route.

 

[paul1609]

Wouldn't that involve doubling-back through Leatherhead?

I thought that but as Leatherhead to Epsom and on to Raynes park or Mitcham Junction are also valid routes it doesnt matter on a season ticket.

 

[tony_mac]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Raynes park or Mitcham Junction are also valid routes

Valid routes for what journey?
You can't get from Epsom to Horsham on map SC without going through Leatherhead.

 

[OwlMan]

The mapped route (PD+SC) is valid if you change at Leatherhead.
As your season ticket is valid for journeys between Leatherhead - Wimbledon via Epsom you are allowed to use your season ticket to travel between Leatherhead and Epsom and effectively double back.

Peter

 

[John @ home]

A London - Horsham season ticket is valid via Woking, Guildford and Epsom.

Wouldn't that involve doubling-back through Leatherhead?

Agreed. I have corrected post #6. Doubling-back Leatherhead - Epsom is permitted with a season ticket, but not necessary for a London - Horsham via Woking + Guildford journey.

 

[tony_mac]

As I see it, there is no valid route from London to Horsham via Guildford, as any mapped route is invalid because of doubling-back at Leatherhead.

I don't believe that it is relevant that he would be allowed to double-back there on a season ticket; and changing at Leatherhead does not solve the problem of the invalid routeing.

 

[clagmonster]

Waterloo is a member of the London Group. Horsham is a routeing point.
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/routeing_point_identifier.pdf

Routeing permissions for London Group-Horsham are: LB, LP, PD+SC, SC
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/permitted_route_identifier.pdf page 572

Maps PD+SC allow, amongst others, Waterloo-Clapham Jn-Wimbledon-Surbiton-Woking-Guildford-Eddingham Jn-Leatherhead-Epsom-Dorking-Horsham
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/maps.pdf pages 81 & 88

But as Epsom is north of Leatherhead, this route would be doubling back through Leatherhead and Ashtead, which is not allowed unless specifically permitted by the group station rule or an easement. Epsom is just a routeing point, not a group, so the group station rule does not apply, and a search of the easements http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/easements.pdf shows no easements involving Epsom. Hence the doubling back is not allowed, so this route is restricted to:
Waterloo-Clapham Jn-Wimbledon-Surbiton-Woking-Guildford-Eddingham Jn-Leatherhead-Epsom-Dorking-Horsham.

Therefore your season covers you Waterloo-Woking. The National Rail conditions of carriage says:
"19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire
journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one
ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include
Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport
executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not."
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

Your season covers you Waterloo-Woking, and you would buy a normal ticket Woking-Southampton. You would be covered by part c as you have one season ticket and one ticket which is not a season, so you could travel on a train not stopping at Woking.

 

[tony_mac]

Waterloo-Clapham Jn-Wimbledon-Surbiton-Woking-Guildford-Eddingham Jn-Leatherhead-Epsom-Dorking-Horsham
this route would be doubling back through Leatherhead and Ashtead, which is not allowed

so this route is restricted to:
Waterloo-Clapham Jn-Wimbledon-Surbiton-Woking-Guildford-Eddingham Jn-Leatherhead-Epsom-Dorking-Horsham.

Why is that allowed to double back through Leatherhead?

 

[John @ home]

As I see it, there is no valid route from London to Horsham via Guildford, as any mapped route is invalid because of doubling-back at Leatherhead.

This depends on the meaning of the words "intercept point(s)" in the National Routeing Guide.

These words appear only once in the instructions, do not appear at all in the NRG in detail, and are not defined anywhere. Therefore they take their ordinary meaning in the English language.

The relevant paragraph in the National Routeing Guide is:

Where a routeing specifies that a combination of Maps be used e.g) ER+PN+BD, the route is via any route on that map from the first routeing point to intercept point(s) for the next map without doubling back, then via any route within that map without doubling back. This is repeated until the final map is reached then via any route within that map until the final routeing point is reached.

London - Woking - Guildford - Leatherhead - Horsham is a permitted route if Leatherhead may be used as an intercept point between maps PD and SC.

Leatherhead appears on map PD. It is not shown on map SC, but a railway line between adjacent Routeing Points Epsom and Dorking is shown on that map. The only railway line between Epsom and Dorking passes through Leatherhead. Maps PD and SC diverge at Leatherhead. Therefore Leatherhead is a point at which map PD intercepts with map SC.

The rules do not state that an intercept point must be shown on a map. Therefore it is permitted to travel London - Woking - Guildford - Leatherhead on map PD, move to map SC at the intercept point Leatherhead, and continue to travel Leatherhead - Dorking - Horsham on map SC.

This route does not double back, ie. it does not pass through any station more than once.

 

[royaloak]

Why, if travelling from Guildford to horsham, would you go to Epsom?, you would change at Leatherhead as all trains stop there!
There is absolutely no good reason to carry on to Epsom just to travel back through Leatherhead on the way to Horsham

 

[tony_mac]

Well, that's an interesting intepretation.

I would have thought any reasonable meaning of intercept points to a layman would be using the points shown on the map, not some unmarked point on a possibly connected bit of line.

It's up to you, of course, but I wouldn't want to rely on that interpretation to avoid an excess / penalty fare!