Waterloo East to Waterloo connection?

[Peter Sarf]

The only realistic options I could see are the existing footbridge being widened & modernised, in the style of Reading's, possibly with the addition of moving walkways also perhaps sloping ramps or travelators connecting to the concourse but with the mezzanine being there so not possible. The current fast escalators are probably sturdy enough for wheeled luggage and the lifts are there.

The other is possibly a people mover shuttle but it isn't really that far to walk between the two stations that moving walkways would be more likely. Anybody with severly restricted mobility probably would need to look for better connections.

Rather than widening the existing pedestrian link perhaps an extra link from nearer the country and of the Waterloo East platforms to Waterloo. That might improve the distribution of passengers along the trains to/from Charing Cross away from the (Charing Cross) buffer end of those trains.

But like the rail link idea - is there really any demand ?.

 

[Mr. SW]

Some years ago I entertained a notion of connecting the North Kent/Dartford loops to the Hounslow/Kingston loops as they echoed each other in general form and envisioned a frequent double figure-of-eight service via a connecting tunnel which ran via Elephant and Kennington. Then I realised I was simply duplicating the South London line and part of the proposed Bakerloo line extension.

I dropped the idea.

Nobody's going to connect the two Waterloos. Ever.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Surely something could be done by turning the international platforms into through platforms and building a bridge over Cab Rd/Mepham St. The corner may be a bit tight but the speeds wouldn't be high anyway.

I envision something like this:
View attachment 158971

One could get carried away, and imagine the international services arriving at Waterloo again, and then carrying on as per this sketch as a circular service back onto the SE lines to pick up a route back to the tunnel! What fun.

Rather than widening the existing pedestrian link perhaps an extra link from nearer the country and of the Waterloo East platforms to Waterloo. That might improve the distribution of passengers along the trains to/from Charing Cross away from the (Charing Cross) buffer end of those trains.

But like the rail link idea - is there really any demand ?.

An extra link from the country end of W'loo East via what route? The quickest way to W'loo Main would be along the W East platforms and carry on as now. Of course there is an exit from W East platforms nearer the country end, which goes down to connect with Southwark tube station (albeit by a bit of a walk through a tunnel which requires going out of ticket gates and in again, even though - I believe - you can't get to anywhere other than the two stations by using that tunnel; I have no idea whether this link to the tube (which is only of use for a limited range of tube destinations, given what else is at Waterloo - and London Bridge of course) is sufficiently popular to help spread the loading on trains into ChX.

 

[MPW]

I think more likely is improved interchange connection as outlined in the Waterloo Station Masterplan. The details still need to be ironed out but any improvement would greatly reduce the business case for an expensive rail connection - as the interchange would approach a 'normal' in-station interchange.

Me being me, I still have some fantasies about the pedestrian link even without a rail connection. Picturing travelators, big new escalator banks, and new concourse in the railway arches. None of that is mentioned in the master plan

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think more likely is improved interchange connection as outlined in the Waterloo Station Masterplan. The details still need to be ironed out but any improvement would greatly reduce the business case for an expensive rail connection - as the interchange would approach a 'normal' in-station interchange.

Me being me, I still have some fantasies about the pedestrian link even without a rail connection. Picturing travelators, big new escalator banks, and new concourse in the railway arches. None of that is mentioned in the master plan

I wonder how many people actually want to travel Vauxhall (and beyond) to/from London Bridge (and beyond) ?.

 

[MPW]

I wonder how many people actually want to travel Vauxhall (and beyond) to/from London Bridge (and beyond) ?.

Me, all the time!

 

[LBMPSB]

Surely something could be done by turning the international platforms into through platforms and building a bridge over Cab Rd/Mepham St. The corner may be a bit tight but the speeds wouldn't be high anyway.

I envision something like this:
View attachment 158971

It is very easy to draw lines, but look into it in detail and you will see how ridiculous this proposal is.

 

[telstarbox]

I wonder how many people actually want to travel Vauxhall (and beyond) to/from London Bridge (and beyond) ?.

It's partly the lack of orbital connections south of London, so if you want to do say Tunbridge Wells to Woking you have to go into and out of Zone 1. Similarly Sevenoaks to Brighton you are given a change at London Bridge.

 

[JonathanH]

It's partly the lack of orbital connections south of London, so if you want to do say Tunbridge Wells to Woking you have to go into and out of Zone 1.

Connecting Waterloo to Waterloo East doesn't remove the need to go into and out of Zone 1.

Similarly Sevenoaks to Brighton you are given a change at London Bridge.

The railway works best where it concentrates the most demand to move a lot of people in an efficient manner.

A journey from Sevenoaks to Brighton can be made with a change from train to bus in Tunbridge Wells if passengers don't want to go into London.

 

[MPW]

It's partly the lack of orbital connections south of London, so if you want to do say Tunbridge Wells to Woking you have to go into and out of Zone 1. Similarly Sevenoaks to Brighton you are given a change at London Bridge.

I frequently change from waterloo east to waterloo to go towards clapham and would be pretty content with a materially improved connection. I do believe that is the intention. Could easily end up being more comfortable than going from tube to national rail at London bridge!

My crayons ideas are much more off the page than linking those two routes haha (I'll save the forum and not mention those)

 

[Magdalia]

It's partly the lack of orbital connections south of London

There is not a lack of orbital connections south of London. Tonbridge-Redhill and Redhill-Reading provide an orbital connection. The coastway lines provide orbital connections all the way from Ashford to Southampton.

if you want to do say Tunbridge Wells to Woking you have to go into and out of Zone 1

You don't have to. You could go Tonbridge-Redhill-Guildford.

Try doing anything similar on the north side of the Thames. Beaconsfield to Bletchley, Berkhamsted to Bishops Stortford and Clacton to Harlow are all journeys between two towns in the same county, but all impossible to do by rail except via London.

Go north out of London from Kings Cross/St Pancras and the first orbital line to link the two radial routes is Peterborough-Leicester. Go north on the two main routes out of Liverpool Street and the first orbital line to link the two radial routes is Cambridge-Ipswich.

In this respect south of the Thames is far better served than north of the Thames.

 

[miklcct]

There is not a lack of orbital connections south of London. Tonbridge-Redhill and Redhill-Reading provide an orbital connection. The coastway lines provide orbital connections all the way from Ashford to Southampton.



You don't have to. You could go Tonbridge-Redhill-Guildford.

Try doing anything similar on the north side of the Thames. Beaconsfield to Bletchley, Berkhamsted to Bishops Stortford and Clacton to Harlow are all journeys between two towns in the same county, but all impossible to do by rail except via London.

Go north out of London from Kings Cross/St Pancras and the first orbital line to link the two radial routes is Peterborough-Leicester. Go north on the two main routes out of Liverpool Street and the first orbital line to link the two radial routes is Cambridge-Ipswich.

In this respect south of the Thames is far better served than north of the Thames.

That's why the East West Rail is needed. It can provide a route avoiding London for these journeys.

 

[telstarbox]

Sorry I was too brief earlier. I should have said that while those orbital connections do exist, as they're all stops and low frequency it is often faster to transfer via Zone 1.