Victoria Line Summer Closure

[IanD]

There are a few spare buses parked in the car park at Blackhorse Road Station.

Presumably they are there as relief buses, which could be brought into service, particularly in the am peak, if people are unable to board at Blackhorse Road.

Overall i am pleasantly surprised at the way things are going. Arriving at Seven Sisters, there are plenty of signs and people to direct you to the correct bus stop, and there is always a bus waiting there. sometimes two.

The 558 to Chingford Mount is really useful as well.

Not my experience over the last few days. Regular 15 minute wait for a bus at 7 sisters which is then expected to pick up passengers from the 3 trains that have arrived in this period. Similar wait at Blackhorse Road heading back to 7 sisters.

The 558 is a con - the symbol on the bus stop has the "Victoria Line" logo, yet if you use it, they charge you £1.50 extra even if you then continue on the real Victoria Line. This is mentioned in the leaflets but not at the stops. Indeed, at Blackhorse Road the pink clad customer service people try to herd everyone on to a 558 if one arrives before the "free" rrb.

 

[duncanp]

Went for a drink at the Ferry Boat Inn at Tottenham Hale on Saturday.

There was a traffic jam in the direction from Blackhorse Road towards Tottenham Hale, which would certainly delay the Rail Replacement buses and cause bunching at Seven Sisters. Spurs were playing at home on Saturday, which would have generated additional traffic in the area.

i can only report my own experience, which is going home from work at 4:30pm on a weekday. It may be different at other times.

Regarding the point made about the 558, TfL explicity state that

"...Oyster Pay as you Go Bus fares (£1.50) will be refunded for anyone who has not reached the daily cap, according to the following rules:

A bus journey on route 41, 76, or 558, followed by an entry tap at Seven Sisters within 30 minutes of the bus tap..."

So anyone who has to pay £1.50 to get on the 558 will have that money refunded if they tap in at Seven Sisters within 30 minutes of getting on the bus.

In any case, I would have thought that the majority of people travelling on the 558 are regular commuters who have travelcards.

 

[IanD]

Regarding the point made about the 558, TfL explicity state that

"...Oyster Pay as you Go Bus fares (£1.50) will be refunded for anyone who has not reached the daily cap, according to the following rules:

A bus journey on route 41, 76, or 558, followed by an entry tap at Seven Sisters within 30 minutes of the bus tap..."

So anyone who has to pay £1.50 to get on the 558 will have that money refunded if they tap in at Seven Sisters within 30 minutes of getting on the bus.

Again, not my experience. See Thumbnail.

And what happens when it's the 558 that takes you over the cap?

And what happens when the Vic line is closed completely (as was the case last Tuesday due to some incident at Finsbury Park) and you don't get to touch in at 7 Sisters but have to take another bus to Manor House instead? £1.50 for the 558, £1.50 for the 279 and then £2.30 from Manor House to Zone 1. Total = £5.30 so the return £2.80/£3.0 chanrge take you to the cap and you end up paying £7.50 for a journey that should have been £5.60

In any case, I would have thought that the majority of people travelling on the 558 are regular commuters who have travelcards.

Why would you think that?

 

[duncanp]

If you have been overcharged by Oyster, I guess you need to call the helpline, contact TfL online.

The website for the Victoria Line closure does state that a bus journey on the 558 will be refunded if followed by an entry tap at Seven Sisters within 30 minutes, so if this is not happening then TfL need to be informed.

They also need to be told if the same thing is not happening in the reverse direction. (ie a journey on the 558 should be refunded if it within 30 minutes of an exit tap at Seven Sisters.

The 558 has been specifically introduced (on Mondays - Fridays only) to cater for people who would normally transfer to the Victoria Line at Walthamstow or Blackhorse Road. I would imagine that a fair proportion of people using would have travelcards, certainly at peak times at least.

If there is unplanned disruption, then the situation for PAYG users is the same as at any other time of year.

TfL will know about the disruption on the Victoria Line last Tuesday, so can look at the journey history and refund people if necessary.

 

[IanD]

If you have been overcharged by Oyster, I guess you need to call the helpline, contact TfL online.

I will now that I know but the publicity they provided beforehand clearly stated that using the 558 would be charged at normal Oyster rates - although I didn't read it until after last Thursday - so avoided the 558 on Friday.

 

[duncanp]

I think the point about the 558 is that it is meant to assist people from the Chingford Mount area who would normally change to the tube at Blackhorse Road or Walthamstow Central.

Under normal circumstances, if using PAYG for a journey from Chingford Mount to Zone 1 you would have to pay for a bus journey to Blackhorse Road or Walthamstow Central before getting on the tube.

So the 558 is only really a con for people boarding at Blackhorse Road or Tottenham Hale.

 

[Be3G]

I have actually received an e-mail from TfL this morning trying to chivvy people into using RRS B. It says:-

"During the weekday morning peak, we continue to recommend taking replacement bus service B to Stratford for Tube, DLR and Rail connections, for the following reasons:
• Journey times have been about 20 minutes during the morning peak
• It serves only five stops in total
• It takes a route through private roads

Interesting! It seems that TfL have realised that people will equate the RRS B to be along the lines of the 97/158 (i.e. slow) so are now promoting its unique characteristics. I hope that does encourage more people to use it.

In the longer term, some thought ought to be given to reinstating the curve between the Chingford Line and the Lea Valley line, so that through trains from Chingford to Stratford could operate. As has been said earlier, it takes far too long to get from the North of Waltham Forest to Stratford and Canary Wharf, and reinstating s short piece of track would be at a relatively low cost. Chingford to Stratford trains could serve a newly re-opened Lea Bridge station as well.

I couldn't agree more. I did think of mentioning this in my previous post, but I get the feeling these days – having had reason for optimism a few years ago – that pigs will fly before we see direct trains from Chingford to Stratford.

Regarding the point made about the 558, TfL explicity state that

"...Oyster Pay as you Go Bus fares (£1.50) will be refunded for anyone who has not reached the daily cap, according to the following rules:

A bus journey on route 41, 76, or 558, followed by an entry tap at Seven Sisters within 30 minutes of the bus tap..."

So anyone who has to pay £1.50 to get on the 558 will have that money refunded if they tap in at Seven Sisters within 30 minutes of getting on the bus.

Again, not my experience. See Thumbnail.

I don't have direct experience of this process but I think I can see what the source of confusion is: TfL's wording says the fare will be refunded. Normally, where Oyster is involved, refunds aren't provided on-the-spot: it's up to back-office processing to notice the need for a refund and issue it for collection from a station gateline at a later date. So I'd keep an eye out for an e-mail within the next week to say that there's a credit waiting to be applied to your Oyster at a pre-determined station.

I think the point about the 558 is that it is meant to assist people from the Chingford Mount area who would normally change to the tube at Blackhorse Road or Walthamstow Central.

This is what I've surmised too, and as mentioned before I'm very pleased TfL had the foresight to introduce the route for this reason (although I wish it ran at weekends too)!

Oh, almost forgot. I've discovered in a press release a titbit about another piece of infrastructure work TfL are carrying out during the closure. Turns out they're installing a chilled ventilation fan in the tunnels between Walthamstow and Blackhorse Road.

 

[duncanp]

They are also providing free bottled water at Blackhorse Road and Tottenham Hale. (Don't know about Walthamstow Central as I haven't been there during the closure)

 

[plcd1]

The thing to watch about exiting Seven Sisters and then catching a connecting service bus (not the RRS) is the 15 time parameter. That's quite a short time period to get up the stairs and walk to where the 558 departs from. Given it runs every 10 mins off peak I'd argue it's borderline whether a slow walker or someone encumbered with kids / luggage could achieve the 15 min parameter. Ditto for the W4 bus where you have to cross several roads and walk up past Tescos to catch it and it only runs every 10 mins at best. What the heck do you do in the evening and Sundays when buses are much less frequent? I can understand TfL not wanting a massive number of free trips on service buses but a 25 min interchange parameter would make far more sense.

I've not had to use the RRS so far but I did have a chat to a gent from Sullivans who are running RRS "A" who said 27 buses are needed for the M-F peaks. I understand there have been some very large queues at Seven Sisters for buses in the PM peak. My limited observations of the service suggest it gets a bit "lumpy" with long gaps and then umpteen buses at once - this has happened every day. There have also been repeated problems on Hoe St in the evening when parked cars have meant buses can't head north so TfL have had to divert the 34, 97, 215, 275 and 357 via Blackhorse Rd and Forest Rd instead. I've no idea if the RRS has also been affected but if it has then the poor souls waiting on Hoe St would have no buses! :roll:

No one can be shocked about traffic queues at T Hale at weekends. The gyratory jams every weekend because of cars queuing to get in and out of the retail park. Doesn't matter how you design the roads it's still hell - it was 2 years ago and it is now. The RRS buses and 558 will be particularly caught as they go down Broad Lane and have to do battle with all the cars going to the retail park and there is now only 1 lane s/b so no overtaking either.

 

[nidave]

This is a really good program http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00sc29t/how-they-dug-the-victoria-line

Not sure how long it will be available

 

[duncanp]

The thing to watch about exiting Seven Sisters and then catching a connecting service bus (not the RRS) is the 15 time parameter. That's quite a short time period to get up the stairs and walk to where the 558 departs from. Given it runs every 10 mins off peak I'd argue it's borderline whether a slow walker or someone encumbered with kids / luggage could achieve the 15 min parameter. Ditto for the W4 bus where you have to cross several roads and walk up past Tescos to catch it and it only runs every 10 mins at best. What the heck do you do in the evening and Sundays when buses are much less frequent? I can understand TfL not wanting a massive number of free trips on service buses but a 25 min interchange parameter would make far more sense.

The deadline for an entry tap on the 558 (and also the 41 or the 76) is 30 minutes after the exit tap at Seven Sisters, which should be adequate in most cases, unless the traffic is really bad.

In any case, if someone is using Oyster PAYG to travel from Zone 1 to Chingford Mount they are not losing out if they have to pay for the 558, as in normal circumstances they would have to pay for the tube from Zone 1 to Blackhorse Road, and then again for the 158. In fact they are actually gaining if they manage to get a free journey on the 558.

 

[IanD]

The deadline for an entry tap on the 558 (and also the 41 or the 76) is 30 minutes after the exit tap at Seven Sisters, which should be adequate in most cases, unless the traffic is really bad.

Well, the official line quoted above is 15 minutes. However, I'm finding it difficult to exit 7 sisters and get on any RRB or 558 within 30 minutes so even if it is 30 minutes it's still not enough time at around 5pm. And I always position myself by the exit and walk up the escalator. It's the size (I would say length but there's no order to it, it's like a huge swarm around the bus stop) of the queues and the irregular frequency of the buses that is the issue. I think they would need to allow an hour during peak times or provide some sort of temporary tap in facility at the bus stop to show what time you actually joined the swarm rather than boarded the bus.

Might try walking to South Tottenham to get to Blackhorse Road, at least it will count as a second leg of the same journey as soon as I touch in even if I do have to wait for half an hour.

 

[jon0844]

By the time people (and TfL) sort things out properly, the work will be done!

 

[duncanp]

Might try walking to South Tottenham to get to Blackhorse Road, at least it will count as a second leg of the same journey as soon as I touch in even if I do have to wait for half an hour.

Good luck in trying to get on the GOBLIN at South Tottenham during the evening peak. It is severely overcrowded, and people are regularly left behind.

Had to go home around 5:30 today via Tottenham Hale. Could not get on the first 558, but a replacement bus came a few minutes later and I got on that,, transferring to the next 558 at Blackhorse Road.

It is not ideal by any means, but at least it is only for three weeks.

How did people manage before the Victoria Line, or when the GOBLIN was every 30 minutes?

 

[Clip]

By the time people (and TfL) sort things out properly, the work will be done!

ha ha more than likely. Im just leaving for work earlier now when im on an early and not really found it too much bother on the train.

 

[duncanp]

By the time people (and TfL) sort things out properly, the work will be done!

Or not, as the case may be.

Let's hope that the work is proceeding to schedule, and that on 31st August we don't get a message saying "..due to unforeseen circumstances, the work on the Victoria Line is being extended... blah, blah, blah....."

 

[jon0844]

I hope not too. I suspect it will be on time or even completed early as it seems that when you now often have penalties for overrunning, there's a lot of padding in schedules.

 

[Dstock7080]

Work has been completed early.
Trains expected to start running tomorrow lunchtime, however RRB A will continue to run until the train service is proved robust.

 

[Aictos]

With regards to these works, will they have to do any work south of Seven Sisters to increase the service capacity?

 

[Nym]

I'd expect minor resignalling to be done...

 

[34D]

A Redbridge Transport Volvo Olympian appeared onto route A yesterday, and an Ensign one on route B

 

[class303]

Victoria Line is open for business again. 2 days early.

 

[TheNewNo2]

I saw someone on Twitter complain to TfL that it was open early, as it "raise[d] questions as to the accuracy of the initial planning" - https://twitter.com/SansomAndy/status/637669602227548161

 

[jopsuk]

I saw someone on Twitter complain to TfL that it was open early, as it "raise[d] questions as to the accuracy of the initial planning" - https://twitter.com/SansomAndy/status/637669602227548161

Christ. People really can't be helped can they?

 

[jon0844]

Aren't there penalties for overrunning? In which case I'd expect EVERY job to have a margin of error to prevent such problems, and hopefully therefore most jobs would be finished early.

How the hell can someone complain about that?

I mean, I guess TfL could have finished and just pretended it hadn't so it could have said it was finished on time.. and nobody would have been any the wiser!

 

[duncanp]

It is quite possible that it was planned to finish on the 28th, and the two extra days were contingency in case of unforeseen problems.

Better to err on the side of caution, but you really can't help the self proclaimed experts on Twatter can you?

As someone who was directly affected by the closure, I think it went quite well overall. From my local bus stop, I took either the N73 to Seven Sisters or the 123 to Turnpike Lane, and overall the journey time was extended by no more than 10 - 15 minutes.

Similarly on the return journey.

Now we just have to contend with 8 months on no down escalator at Walthamstow, praying all the time that the one working escalator doesn't suddenly give up the ghost.

 

[TheNewNo2]

Aren't there penalties for overrunning? In which case I'd expect EVERY job to have a margin of error to prevent such problems, and hopefully therefore most jobs would be finished early.

They'd accrue service points (probably) and lost customer hours for the overrun, but the projects division never seem that worried about LCH anyway, it's not their primary measure.

 

[Busaholic]

Looking at the timetable of the 558 the PVR would only seem to be about 13/14; does that mean they plan to double-up some peak-hour buses?

I now understand 20 buses had to be provided for a pvr of 10, if that makes sense.

 

[Clip]

Gues who the bright spark is wo didn't realise it had opened and has still opted for the train the last couple of days

 

[Kristofferson]

Judging by the hordes that joined the Piccadilly at Green Park this morning, everyone is well aware it's open again