Use/meaning of the term "Open return"

[Krokodil]

Moderator note: Split from

Trainline "AI" assistant: incorrect advice

Trainline has launched a wonderful new "AI" assistant feature after you purchase a ticket from their app(/site?). One of the first things I asked it, after buying a child ticket, was whether I could travel on it as a 28 year old adult. Unsurprisingly, the answer was... yes. Me: Does that mean...

www.railforums.co.uk

I've long defended Trainline from accusations from staff that it provides information different from other retailers - to now it couldn't and doesn't as it uses basically the same data sources

Like when it offers an "Open Return" tab that will actually list every sort of day and period return existing?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Like when it offers an "Open Return" tab that will actually list every sort of day and period return existing?

That is very common across retailers, not just Trainline. LNER certainly does the same. I agree it is a bit confusing, but it would be wrong for staff to poke Trainline over that one, it's an industry issue that would need to be resolved by the accreditation requiring a different approach, e.g. separate "same day flexible return" and "one month flexible return" options.

 

[MrJeeves]

Like when it offers an "Open Return" tab that will actually list every sort of day and period return existing?

It's also what TrainSplit will do. Provided it's clearly displayed, I don't see an issue with this.

 

[Krokodil]

It's also what TrainSplit will do. Provided it's clearly displayed, I don't see an issue with this.

Because I often hear "but I bought an open return" when the passenger is wondering why their Day Return has vanished. The confirmation email even refers to "open return" too.

 

[yorkie]

There are three different interpretations for the term "open return" these days.

Firstly, the former Standard/First Open Return (SOR/FOR) ticket type, as used by British Rail and the early years of privatisation, has been called an "Anytime Return" since 2008, retaining the SOR/FOR codes to this day. However, these days, relatively few people us the term Open Return as exclusively referring to an SOR/FOR product.

Secondly, a significant proportion number of people refer to the term "Open return" colloquially to refer to any product (including one with time restrictions) that is valid for a calendar month on the return portion, i.e. the return portion has the same duration as the traditional Open Return product.

And finally, there is a third definition of the term "open return" which is that referred to by many websites, including Trainline from as far back as around 1999, which can be a time restricted ticket and doesn't even have to be valid for more than a day, but is not an "Advance"; colloquially this is more commonly known as a "walk-up" ticket, or occasionally as a "flexible" or "semi-flexible" ticket, and can be almost any type of ticket that isn't restricted to one specific service/itinerary.

Therefore, it might be a good idea to avoid using the term "open return", as the meaning can vary by context, as well as being subject to interpretation, as there is no commonly accepted definition, and it's no longer the name of a product.

 

[Class800]

It's also what TrainSplit will do. Provided it's clearly displayed, I don't see an issue with this.

My understanding was that open return means period return ie open dated? It was certainly how I've always used the terms

 

[yorkie]

My understanding was that open return means period return ie open dated? It was certainly how I've always used the term

Websites generally use the term "open return" to mean any return ticket that isn't restricted to a specific itinerary, regardless of whether it is a Day return or Return valid for a month; in this sense, Trainsplit are effectively following Trainline's lead. I believe Trainline have been using this definition for over 25 years.

However, the more common interpretation among passengers and staff, and the interpretation which is likely to prevail when interacting with ticket office staff, is that it Day Returns are excluded, and that the ticket would need to be valid for a month. However, this still includes Off Peak tickets, which may be restricted at certain times of day.

Some people use the original meaning which applied to the product of that name, i.e. nowadays an Anytime Return.

 

[Haywain]

However, the more common interpretation, and the interpretation which is likely to prevail when interacting with ticket office staff, is that it Day Returns are excluded, and that the ticket would need to be valid for a month.

When I was selling tickets I would always seek clarification if a customer asked for an open return. Many did actually want a day return.

 

[OscarH]

My understanding was that open return means period return ie open dated? It was certainly how I've always used the terms

Basically everyone has settled on using open return to mean "I don't want to choose am inbound itinerary".

The problem is there's a split between passengers, there are some who still have the old month definition, and there are others who expect to get day returns, especially on routes where period returns simply don't exist. The best way to please all the people in a website context is to show both day and period returns, just making sure to make it very clear

 

[sheff1]

The best way to please all the people in a website context is to show both day and period returns, just making sure to make it very clear

The best way to please all people is to sell walk up tickets without a need to select an itinerary in either direction, whilst still offering the ability to choose an itinerary to those who prefer that.

I would certainly use Trainsplit much more than I do currently if they didn’t insist on journey selection when the ticket(s) I want do not need it.

 

[miklcct]

The best way to please all people is to sell walk up tickets without a need to select an itinerary in either direction, whilst still offering the ability to choose an itinerary to those who prefer that.

I would certainly use Trainsplit much more than I do currently if they didn’t insist on journey selection when the ticket(s) I want do not need it.

I have the same feeling as well. Choosing an itinerary is meaningless on a commuter route where a train comes every few minutes.