Unwarranted penalty fare

[BestWestern]

Wow, a lot of opinion on this one!

Just write to the TOC, state categorically that the person concerned is most definitely not your son because he was elsewhere at the time, and make it quite clear that they are wrong about the whole matter. If somebody has given them false information, that is entirely the railway's problem and not in any way yours. It is not difficult to give a false name, address and D.O.B, and you cannot be held responsible for others choosing to do so. You should feel under no obligation to do anything other than reply to their letter. If they wish to take the matter any further than inform them that you will gladly see them in court, but point out that if you are successful you will obviously be looking to recover all of your costs plus compensation for your time etc. If they push the matter that far I would be very surprised, but obviously if your son is innocent then you have nothing to fear.

 

[jon0844]

But those same people are quite happy to photograph/ video staff members when they are not happy about something.
You cant have it both ways.

They're not likely the same people at all. The people evading their fare are quite likely people who would have many reasons to not want to be photographed or identified, as police assisted stings regularly prove. Many might become extremely violent as a result.

 

[steadmane]

Ok. I still think your advice is not helpful. This kind of issue does not need to go to court, with all the stress that brings.

I don't see how my advice can be as unhelpful as the "you must prove your innocence" attitude. A company is accusing a mother's child of an offence which she is saying did not happen. Their proof is apparently the person commiting the offence gave the child's details? Are you honestly thinking any company can win a court case with that?

Write a letter, a strongly worded on of how offended you are at the accusations, demand some sort of compensation for having to deal with the issue. Certainly don't worry about it.

 

[kieron]

The important point to me is that Mrsmajortom's son has not seen the notice, so doesn't know enough about it to be able to explain why it wasn't issued to him. It may be easy to clear things up if the TOC provide a copy, but there's no reason to try to guess when or where it was issued.

 

[Mrsmajortom]

Wow, a lot of opinion on this one!

Just write to the TOC, state categorically that the person concerned is most definitely not your son because he was elsewhere at the time, and make it quite clear that they are wrong about the whole matter. If somebody has given them false information, that is entirely the railway's problem and not in any way yours. It is not difficult to give a false name, address and D.O.B, and you cannot be held responsible for others choosing to do so. You should feel under no obligation to do anything other than reply to their letter. If they wish to take the matter any further than inform them that you will gladly see them in court, but point out that if you are successful you will obviously be looking to recover all of your costs plus compensation for your time etc. If they push the matter that far I would be very surprised, but obviously if your son is innocent then you have nothing to fear.

Thanks for advice. I have written a strongly worded letter along the lines of your suggestion although I have sent it to the company who sent the demand for payment - Revenue Protection Support Services - www.penaltyfares.co.uk - I guess I should also copy any correspondence and forward to the TOC also? My fear is that any organisation that collects debt on behalf of another company is unlikely to enter into a discussion about the rights and wrongs of an individuals situation. Clearly I want a swift end to the matter but I am prepared to take this as far as it need go to prove my son's innocence and the TOC's failings.

 

[BestWestern]

Thanks for advice. I have written a strongly worded letter along the lines of your suggestion although I have sent it to the company who sent the demand for payment - Revenue Protection Support Services - www.penaltyfares.co.uk - I guess I should also copy any correspondence and forward to the TOC also? My fear is that any organisation that collects debt on behalf of another company is unlikely to enter into a discussion about the rights and wrongs of an individuals situation. Clearly I want a swift end to the matter but I am prepared to take this as far as it need go to prove my son's innocence and the TOC's failings.

I think sending a copy on to the TOC would be a very good idea, obviously with a covering letter or an amended version of the original letter explaining that you believe their member of staff to have been given false details. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the collection agents refer the matter back to the TOC in such cases, though I don't know that to be fact.

 

[martinB]

The RPSS website states on its FAQ section of the website:

Q. I did not travel.
A. If you have received a letter about an incident of which you know nothing, AND THE LETTER IS ADDRESSED TO YOU, then please phone the number shown on the letter. You may have to write to RPSS with evidence explaining the circumstances. It could be that an "imposter" has used your identity.

Which suggests that they are aware of this possibility.

 

[snail]

I don't see how my advice can be as unhelpful as the "you must prove your innocence" attitude. A company is accusing a mother's child of an offence which she is saying did not happen. Their proof is apparently the person commiting the offence gave the child's details? Are you honestly thinking any company can win a court case with that?

No. I don't think it should have to go to court and it is not being helpful advising the OP to do that.

 

[sheff1]

The RPSS website states on its FAQ section of the website:

Q. I did not travel.
A. If you have received a letter about an incident of which you know nothing, AND THE LETTER IS ADDRESSED TO YOU, then please phone the number shown on the letter. You may have to write to RPSS with evidence explaining the circumstances. It could be that an "imposter" has used your identity.

Why would you have to do that ? Surely a simple statement that you know nothing about the alleged incident is all you need to provide.

 

[34D]

Why would you have to do that ? Surely a simple statement that you know nothing about the alleged incident is all you need to provide.

Well because its the oldest trick in the book.

If you've ever had mail/calls from debt collectors arrive at your house and tried to stop it then you'll know that they require proof.

 

[sheff1]

Well because its the oldest trick in the book.

If you've ever had mail/calls from debt collectors arrive at your house and tried to stop it then you'll know that they require proof.

Well I never have so can't comment, but if I ever receive a letter demanding payment of a train fare for a journey I have not undertaken then I would simply reply saying I knew nothing about it.

 

[eastend43]

Well because its the oldest trick in the book.

If you've ever had mail/calls from debt collectors arrive at your house and tried to stop it then you'll know that they require proof.

Aside from that, having a debt collection agency involved, even though you know you are in the right, can be a very stressful experience. I had one chasing me for £30 that AOL said I owed them (which I didn't). Eventually OFCOM intervened and got it resolved, but I got repeated calls from debt collection agencies which were really nasty. I know some of you will say I should have just ignored them or tried to wind them up, but their tactics were pretty upsetting. Looking back now it was pretty funny whenthe guy on the phone threatening me with a CCJ which is irrelevant for someone, like me, living in Scotland, but at the time it was pretty stressful.

Hopefully the company that the OP is dealing with is not so aggressive.

 

[BestWestern]

Aside from that, having a debt collection agency involved, even though you know you are in the right, can be a very stressful experience. I had one chasing me for £30 that AOL said I owed them (which I didn't). Eventually OFCOM intervened and got it resolved, but I got repeated calls from debt collection agencies which were really nasty. I know some of you will say I should have just ignored them or tried to wind them up, but their tactics were pretty upsetting. Looking back now it was pretty funny whenthe guy on the phone threatening me with a CCJ which is irrelevant for someone, like me, living in Scotland, but at the time it was pretty stressful.

Hopefully the company that the OP is dealing with is not so aggressive.

Once the matter was resolved, did you lodge claims for compensation from said firms for the stress and harassment they continued to cause despite having been informed they were wrong? I bl**dy well would have done!

However threatening any particular body may be when chasing money which they have deemed themselves entitled to, the simple fact is that if you don't owe it then you don't owe it. The most that any of them can do is take you to court, at which point if you are genuinely innocent all will be revealed. I personally feel that any firm taking the sort of approach you mention above should be strung up at every opportunity, don't let them run you down!

Anyway, back to the debate...!!

 

[34D]

Once the matter was resolved, did you lodge claims for compensation from said firms for the stress and harassment they continued to cause despite having been informed they were wrong? I bl**dy well would have done!

However threatening any particular body may be when chasing money which they have deemed themselves entitled to, the simple fact is that if you don't owe it then you don't owe it. The most that any of them can do is take you to court, at which point if you are genuinely innocent all will be revealed. I personally feel that any firm taking the sort of approach you mention above should be strung up at every opportunity, don't let them run you down!

Anyway, back to the debate...!!

I agree with bestwestern however it is easier to give them what they want (in my case, a copy of my tenancy) in order to make them go away, than put up with the constant harassment.

My guess is that the response that RPSS send to her letter will either ask her to substantiate her claim/provide a photo that can be compared with CCTV/etc rather than a simple "we're sorry that we made a mistake".

May I enquire as to whether the school had any useful comment to make?

 

[Mrsmajortom]

May I enquire as to whether the school had any useful comment to make?[/QUOTE]

The school have been on half term but I have spoken to my son's head of year today who has confirmed the school are more than happy to speak on my son's behalf regarding attendance etc. if necessary. The head of year is unaware of any other similar incidents but is going to circulate the information to other staff.

I sent my letter to the Revenue Protection Support Services almost a week ago so it is now a waiting game to see what our next step will be.

 

[snail]

Despite some of the more extreme comments on here let's hope they see sense and accept your version of events.

 

[dzug2]

Mrsmajortom - it's maybe not that obvious that your son wouldn't be on the electoral roll - I think 16/17 year olds are included on it!

But you will probably be on the electoral roll - providing some corroboration that an offender claiming the same surname could (and yes only could) live at your address.

 

[Mrsmajortom]

But you will probably be on the electoral roll - providing some corroboration that an offender claiming the same surname could (and yes only could) live at your address.

All that it proves is that an offender has provided a name and address that actually exists and nothing more. It really is the simplest way to skip a fare. It has been happening for decades.