Unpaid fare notice, appeal?

[34D]

Surely the false address could be dealt with "here is my new address from 9th August" in a letter?
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My understanding is that the OP was on the right train but had purchased a Railcard-discounted ticket and failed or refused to present the Railcard for inspection with the ticket.

Did they not have to come back from a holiday earlier than planned because of boyfriend illness?

 

[Ferret]

Did they not have to come back from a holiday earlier than planned because of boyfriend illness?

Apparently so, but if you don't have a railcard with you then selecting the discount wasn't a legitimate thing to do. As such, as harsh as this sounds, the issues with the boyfriend being unwell don't have a great deal of relevance.

 

[jon0844]

None at all, other than to gain sympathy.

 

[Ferret]

None at all, other than to gain sympathy.

Well, there's a key point here; you can bet your life that the Appeals Body have heard all the stories under the sun and may well be fed up of hearing them. I'd venture to say it's not worth even mentioning it, if the OP does decide to appeal!

 

[michael769]

Surely the false address could be dealt with "here is my new address from 9th August" in a letter?

I would not recommend it - giving false details has potentially pretty serious consequences on its own. Making further false statements would take the OP into conspiracy to pervert the course of justice territory - which opens up the possibility of a prison sentence.

 

[Ferret]

Neither would I - when in a hole, stop digging! UFNs can be paid online without having to reveal that you've given a false address - I'd do that, and put the episode behind me at this stage.

 

[ng1980]

Its very easy to sit on this forum and criticise the Guard.

This is a very unfair comment. I have, on other threads in the past, praised guards. My comment was that if the guard had showed discretion, which they have the option of doing, the outcome would have been different. This is nothing more than fact, and is indeed what another guard on this forum, 185 himself said.

As a Guard I can assure you almost everyone who travels on a train their ticket doesn't cover has a sad story to go with it. I'm not suggesting the OP is lying, but hearing these stories does become the norm and unfortunately telling the genuine from the chancers is not easy.

Again, I have agreed with this myself on other threads, and I have not contradicted this on this thread. I wholly agree with you that a job is not an easy job to do.
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Your post is an attempt at humour I presume? If not, what planet are you living on?!

Passenger intentionally books a R'card discounted ticket for a journey they will knowingly make with no R'card with them, doesn't make any effort to deal with it at the station prior to boarding, and then to cap it all gives a member of staff false details. And you feel that it is an embarrassment that the Guard did their job correctly and issued a fresh ticket? And you think that the passenger has grounds to contact the TOC asking for lenience?!

I think you need to go away and have a long think about it, or just stop trolling, whichever applies here :roll:

I think your message does not justify a response. My response to the OP was nice, kind and supportive, as I have been to all other members of this forum. I have never spoken down to anybody, been rude to anybody or otherwise attempted to reprimand anybody.

Your message is not nice, kind or supportive. Your message is much more rude than any message that I have ever written on this forum.

I have thought about it: I am a nice, kind and supportive person and I do not need to be told "to go away and think about it" or "to stop trolling" (which I am not doing).

I have every intention to stay here and be nice to people.

Have a nice day!

And you think that the passenger has grounds to contact the TOC asking for lenience?!

No, please read my original post again.

I said that in the circumstances, she should not ask for lenience. Even if she gave the correct address, I didn't say that she had "grounds" for lenience, but just that she could appeal to the TOC's good nature.

With all due respect, please take the time to read posts carefully before replying. Thank you.

 

[Greenback]

Please may I remind members that if they are unhappy about any post they should report it using the report button underneath their name.

 

[Flamingo]

As you are aware, you did not meet the conditions of the Railcard and the guard, and therefore the guard acted as they were entitled to under the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. However, guards do have discretion specifically for circumstances such as these and it is a great embarrassment that the guard did not do so in this case. I am delighted to hear that 185 would have treated you more appropriately if you had been on his train.

...

Again, I am very sorry that you have been treated in this way; more discretion from the guard could have saved a lot of money and inconvenience. If you ever get into a similar situation again, always give the correct details.

I'm afraid I don't see anything about the OP's situation that would justify the guard using "discretion".

If the guard issued a UFN to the OP's final destination they did use "discretion". The instructions I was given for issuing UFN's is that unless exceptional circumstances the UFN should only be issued to the next manned station, where the passenger should be told to leave the train and either buy a new ticket or make alternative arrangements to get to their final destination.

To summarise, the OP was fully aware of their situation before travelling, and decided to try and blag it. Everything else about the story is just flannel and indignation at being caught.

Edited to add, the OP said they had had to fly home early from holidays as their boyfriend was sick - but they had purchased the Advance ticket a few days earlier. How did they know the BF was going to be sick and they would have to come home? And how were they planning on getting home if they HADN'T flown home early? (Just to pick a few more homes in their story).

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I agree with Ferret, michael679, GadgetMan, Flamingo and others.

This forum has often been able to assist passengers who, in a variety of circumstances, have fallen foul of ticketing technicalities or procedures. But it is quite innapropriate for the forum to advise passengers to distort the facts in order to seek leniency and dismissal after having already failed to pay the due fare and then provided a false name or address when reasonably asked.

There is nothing 'nice' about being deliberately deceitful and its even less 'nice' when the deceit is intended to be at the disadvantage of someone else, in this case the Railway Company.

ng1980. No Appeal is appropriate in this case (as others have very clearly explained already).

 

[Yew]

Your post is an attempt at humour I presume? If not, what planet are you living on?!

Passenger intentionally books a R'card discounted ticket for a journey they will knowingly make with no R'card with them, doesn't make any effort to deal with it at the station prior to boarding, and then to cap it all gives a member of staff false details. And you feel that it is an embarrassment that the Guard did their job correctly and issued a fresh ticket? And you think that the passenger has grounds to contact the TOC asking for lenience?!

I think you need to go away and have a long think about it, or just stop trolling, whichever applies here :roll:

I think If the OP had given the correct address, then this could have been a useful course of action, a copy of the flight details, railcard, and maybe hospital check in. In combination with a good letter could have ended well for the OP. However I fear that if such a course where taken in light of the false address, then that could show intent to avoid payment, and possibly turn a UPFN into a Prosecution under the Rights of the Railways Act.

 

[BestWestern]

I think If the OP had given the correct address, then this could have been a useful course of action, a copy of the flight details, railcard, and maybe hospital check in. In combination with a good letter could have ended well for the OP. However I fear that if such a course where taken in light of the false address, then that could show intent to avoid payment, and possibly turn a UPFN into a Prosecution under the Rights of the Railways Act.

Indeed. People often ask me if they can reclaim the extra cost when they've been caught without their R'card, and I always advise them that the policy is no, but there's no harm in asking - though I do tell them not to get their hopes up as it is highly unlikely. In this case though, the false address is a bit of a 'game changer', and implies deliberate intent to evade paying, which makes it much more serious. I would agree with others that the best course of action would be to pay up and take it as an expensive lesson!
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I think your message does not justify a response. My response to the OP was nice, kind and supportive, as I have been to all other members of this forum. I have never spoken down to anybody, been rude to anybody or otherwise attempted to reprimand anybody.

Your message is not nice, kind or supportive. Your message is much more rude than any message that I have ever written on this forum.

Have a nice day!

Thank you, I always try to have a nice day, and I hope you manage the same!

My apologies if you were offended, but I'm afraid I found your desecration of the entirely correct conduct of a colleague to be rather offensive. You described the Guard's actions as "a great embarrassment", and accuse him of providing "abysmal" or a "complete lack of" customer service, which is a very harsh suggestion that you have no grounds at all for making - would you continue to be 'nice' if I tore you to pieces for doing your job correctly?

Your attitude appears to be that the Guard should have let it all go and done nothing, merely because somebody had an unfortunate tale to tell. It is a Guard's job to deal with this sort of thing on a daily basis, do you not think that we hear this regularly, often from people who are complete liars? It's fab that there are such thoroughly pleasant and unfailingly trusting people as yourself out there, and I would love to have a trainload of people with your mentality, I really would! But sadly that doesn't generally happen, and there are plenty of pi**-takers who also have sad stories to tell every time they scam the railway out of paying for a ticket. Suprisingly enough, people don't generally sit there and say "I have deliberately bought a discounted ticket when I have no railcard" - they tend to lie and try and get away with it. If we had an honesty detector then I'm sure we could all spend every day being 'nice', but in the meantime I'm afraid we have to enforce the rules properly and do our best to ensure that everybody is tre! Please don't think I'm being intentionally rude, just offering a little reality!

Regards, BW,

 

[snail]

No, please read my original post again.

I said that in the circumstances, she should not ask for lenience. Even if she gave the correct address, I didn't say that she had "grounds" for lenience, but just that she could appeal to the TOC's good nature.

With all due respect, please take the time to read posts carefully before replying. Thank you.

I've just read your original post...

Although you are not entitled to any refund, I would have recommended that you write to the TOC explaining the circumstances with photocopied proof of your flight and your boyfriend's hospitalisation, and ask for their lenience in this matter.

...and you appear to be doing just that. :?

 

[455driver]

Bearing in mind the OP hasnt had the decency to acknowledge any of the replies I cant understand why any of you are bothering anymore, good manners cost nothing!

 

[Ferret]

Bearing in mind the OP hasnt had the decency to acknowledge any of the replies I cant understand why any of you are bothering anymore, good manners cost nothing!

Yup - number one mickey take. Come on a forum, ask for help, then bugger off without saying thanks or anything!

 

[Flamingo]

As I said, all indignation that the blag didn't work. Expects to be told on here how to get out of it, is told (by most, if not all) "tough, you got caught", so as it's not the reply she wanted to hear is gone somewhere else where people are not so nasty. Probably her (or daddy, on behalf of his little princess) has already written to the TOC complaining about how rude and bullying the guard was.

I would respectfully suggest it's time to lock this one out Mod's.

 

[bb21]

As the OP has not been back since the opening post, the matter is probably not very urgent. There is little point for this discussion to carry on. Thread is locked until further notice.