Units displaying their numbers partially in some cases

[DaveyJones]

That was posted on the forum a year or two ago; it's an RSSB standard somewhere - but I think it does allow for only the individual number to be shown and not the class number as well.

Incidentally, that standard did state that the space between the class and individual numbers is still a requirement, although these days it seems to be increasingly left out - which I suspect may be because TOPS cannot show the space. I can't honestly see the RSSB enforcing anything as long as there is a clear identification of some kind visible.

Edited: A quick Google suggests the RSSB standard in question is RIS-2453-RST Iss 2.1 but as I don't have an RSSB account I can't read the full standard...

2453 is the correct RIS - from memory, it states that the Unit Number should be displayed on the side of the cab vehicles or the front of the train. Avanti's Rail200 Train seems to suggest its mandatory...

 

[tfw756rider]

2453 is the correct RIS - from memory, it states that the Unit Number should be displayed on the side of the cab vehicles or the front of the train. Avanti's Rail200 Train seems to suggest its mandatory...

Thanks - I'm guessing it's still only the last three digits that need to be displayed though, even though the whole number was relocated in this case (as that's the norm/default).

 

[nw1]

Indeed, most were renumbered so that this worked - the only exception being class 415, whose numbers already started with a 5

Prior to TOPS, all AC emus simply had three digit numbers, which were unique only within the region. There were, for example, three emus numbered "001" - of classes 303 (ScR), 304 (LMR) and 306 (ER). Only started to be an issue when some 303s were drafted in to replace the 506s on the Glossop line - the LMR having no sliding door stock of its own, and it being decided that going from sliding door 506s to slam door 304s was a bad image.

By the mid 80s I remember the 304s had the three-digit numbering in large text and the class "304" in small text above.
The 303s which found their way to LM (I saw one or two) simply had the six-digit number with all characters the same size.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

Yes, but could you explain the numbering of this 108 please?

A DMU to Swanwick, not sure what that's all about! Not even seen an EMU terminate there, let alone a classic DMU...

Not sure about 108s but Western DMUs used to have a three-digit numbering system with the area as a single letter.

So London-area DMUs (Reading depot) would be Lxxx, Bristol Bxxx, Cardiff Cxxx, and Plymouth Pxxx.

The three digit numbers were, I believe, unique within the Western Region. Those I remember include 1xx for the 121s, 4xx for the 117s and 5xx for the 119s.
Later some 101s made their way to Reading depot and they became 8xx.

 

[Mat17]

My initial thoughts on reading the title of this thread was the numbers peeling off of the front of the 195s!

195007 is currently 19.....7

 

[Davester50]

My initial thoughts on reading the title of this thread was the numbers peeling off of the front of the 195s!

195007 is currently 19.....7

CAF must use really rubbish glue - there was a sleeping car I was on that was missing a lot of digits not long after introduction!

 

[norbitonflyer]

By the mid 80s I remember the 304s had the three-digit numbering in large text and the class "304" in small text above.
The 303s which found their way to LM (I saw one or two) simply had the six-digit number with all characters the same size.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==


A DMU to Swanwick, not sure what that's all about! Not even seen an EMU terminate there, let alone a classic DMU...

Not sure about 108s but Western DMUs used to have a three-digit numbering system with the area as a single letter.

So London-area DMUs (Reading depot) would be Lxxx, Bristol Bxxx, Cardiff Cxxx, and Plymouth Pxxx.

The three digit numbers were, I believe, unique within the Western Region. Those I remember include 1xx for the 121s, 4xx for the 117s and 5xx for the 119s.
Later some 101s made their way to Reading depot and they became 8xx.

"Longworth" attempts to briong some order to the chaos, and gives some examples from different dates.
Western - in 1965 had prefixes BL (Bristol), CAT (Cardiff - formerly Cathays) for suburban type units, CDF for Cross Country and Inter city sets, LA for Plymouth (Laira), RDG for Reading and SHL for Southall. Unit numbers were three digits, of which the first was usually the number of cars in the unit - exceptions were Cross Country (5xx) and InterCity (7xx)
The system changed in 1972 - the prefixes were now B(ristol), C(ardiff), L(ondon) and P(lymouth). Same numbering as before, plus the driving trailers built for use with the single units were numvbered in the 2xx range, the class 117s and 118s were in the 4xx range, the 120s for the Heart of Wales line were in the 6xx range and the 101s were in the 8xx range
By 1990 some twin units had appeared, numbered in the 9xx range. There was also a separate Swansea division

The situation in other regions was more fluid, and unit numbers were usually displayed in a more transient form - LMR had a card in the front window, (from 1988 painted on the cab front) In the ER Neville Hill and Hammerton Street (Bradford) had it painrted on the sole bar, whilst Norwich used stickers in the front window, (often with the two digits mismatched in typeface and colour!) Scotland initially allocated 2- or 3-digit numbers to its units. later, from 1981, the region carried full six digit numbers in the frontb windows, the last three digits being between 301 and 422 (thus avoiding duplication of ScR's emus, the highest of which were in the 280s)

 

[nw1]

"Longworth" attempts to briong some order to the chaos, and gives some examples from different dates.
Western - in 1965 had prefixes BL (Bristol), CAT (Cardiff - formerly Cathays) for suburban type units, CDF for Cross Country and Inter city sets, LA for Plymouth (Laira), RDG for Reading and SHL for Southall. Unit numbers were three digits, of which the first was usually the number of cars in the unit - exceptions were Cross Country (5xx) and InterCity (7xx)
The system changed in 1972 - the prefixes were now B(ristol), C(ardiff), L(ondon) and P(lymouth). Same numbering as before, plus the driving trailers built for use with the single units were numvbered in the 2xx range, the class 117s and 118s were in the 4xx range, the 120s for the Heart of Wales line were in the 6xx range and the 101s were in the 8xx range
By 1990 some twin units had appeared, numbered in the 9xx range. There was also a separate Swansea division

The situation in other regions was more fluid, and unit numbers were usually displayed in a more transient form - LMR had a card in the front window, (from 1988 painted on the cab front) In the ER Neville Hill and Hammerton Street (Bradford) had it painrted on the sole bar, whilst Norwich used stickers in the front window, (often with the two digits mismatched in typeface and colour!) Scotland initially allocated 2- or 3-digit numbers to its units. later, from 1981, the region carried full six digit numbers in the frontb windows, the last three digits being between 301 and 422 (thus avoiding duplication of ScR's emus, the highest of which were in the 280s)

Interesting, thanks. I guess the ScR EMUs with the highest numbers in that system were the 318s? Wikipedia however says the highest numbered unit was 270.

I remember seeing in 1988, and using in 1990, 108s (I think) on the West Wales line out of Swansea and I'm fairly sure they didn't have unit numbers at all but might have misremembered. Presumably they were imports from another Region.

 

[Magdalia]

LMR had a card in the front window

For Tyseley and Etches Park these were a bit more substantial than card, more like a rectangle of blackboard slate with stencilled numbers. At Tyseley in the 1970s TS4xx were low density and TS5xx high density.

Norwich used stickers in the front window

Norwich set numbers started in 1971. 30-79 were 2 car sets and 80-88 were 3 car sets. For the 2 car sets the set number stayed with the motor car. Later the 3 car sets became 90-98 and the 2 car sets extended into the 80s.

Cambridge started to number their sets in 1985 and used 01-23.

Finsbury Park never did set numbers.

 

[CR165022]

CAF must use really rubbish glue - there was a sleeping car I was on that was missing a lot of digits not long after introduction!

Peeling numbers certainly happens a lot on older units too
165034 & 168005 have had their numbers replaced too many times to count in the past few years! The former technically showing as 105034 at one point!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Interesting, thanks. I guess the ScR EMUs with the highest numbers in that system were the 318s? Wikipedia however says the highest numbered unit was 270.

Indeed - I misremembered