UK terror threat level raised to 'Severe'

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Oh god I hope not. Medical science being able to eradicate people having different points of view. That would be the only way to eradicate terrorism. Have you seen the film Equilibrium?

I was making reference to the revocation of the aspiration of a return to the 7th century and all that entailed in the newly established Islamic religion....not to the current adherents of that ideal....:roll:

The film to which you allude is typical of the American mentality that breeds such ideas. Personally, I liked Logan's Run where at least an age of 30 could be attained or Soylant Green where redundant humans could be turned into something useful.

Perhaps as a riposte to the ISIL mantra of convert or die, there could be a new mantra of those opposing ISIL...convert or become a Hyde supporter..

 

[fowler9]

I was making reference to the revocation of the aspiration of a return to the 7th century and all that entailed in the newly established Islamic religion....not to the current adherents of that ideal....:roll:

The film to which you allude is typical of the American mentality that breeds such ideas. Personally, I liked Logan's Run where at least an age of 30 could be attained or Soylant Green where redundant humans could be turned into something useful.

Perhaps as a riposte to the ISIL mantra of convert or die, there could be a new mantra of those opposing ISIL...convert or become a Hyde supporter..

Ha ha. Blimey. Convert or Die reminds me of another sci fi film I ought to get out more.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

I flew in from Brisbane via Dubai and Singapore on Monday and managed to get liquids and cremes in various forms through in my bags and an electronic object without a charge i wasnt even checked for the Electronics at Manchester or Dubai... i can safely say i was horrified when i got home and realised how many liquids id left in my bag and got through customs...

 

[fowler9]

I flew in from Brisbane via Dubai and Singapore on Monday and managed to get liquids and cremes in various forms through in my bags and an electronic object without a charge i wasnt even checked for the Electronics at Manchester or Dubai... i can safely say i was horrified when i got home and realised how many liquids id left in my bag and got through customs...

Electronic devices was just to the US I believe so Dubai and Singapore would not be an issue coming from Brisbane to Manchester. What volumes and containers were your Cremes and liquids in? I have been allowed to take a single cigarette lighter onboard flights to Amsterdam and Wroclaw in the last two months. Even when lighters were banned leaving the UK I was allowed one on a flight back to the UK.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Electronic devices are also Canada and the Uk my External Battery had lost charge and my Galaxy Tab3 and Psvita where dieing... thank god for uk customs incompetence

I had Some Aloe Vera Gel,Sun Cremes in spray form,a Opened 600ml Coke Bottle Tooth Paste (big Colgate Tube) and maybe something else

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There was a female Muslim who had contravened British law being interviewed on Radio 4 this morning who claimed that the only law that she was beholden to was the law of Allah. That being the case, why does she choose to reside in a non-Muslim country where Sharia law is not the law of the land? There are surely enough Muslim countries who can offer her the type of legality that she espouses and where she would not be under any pressure to adhere to laws that she does not recognise?

Just a thought in passing.

 

[Oswyntail]

There was a female Muslim who had contravened British law being interviewed on Radio 4 this morning who claimed that the only law that she was beholden to was the law of Allah. That being the case, why does she choose to reside in a non-Muslim country where Sharia law is not the law of the land? There are surely enough Muslim countries who can offer her the type of legality that she espouses and where she would not be under any pressure to adhere to laws that she does not recognise?

Just a thought in passing.

Similar examples crop up regularly, often when people wish to raise the indignation level.
I would offer another "thought in passing". Anyone who breaks the law in this country is showing similar contempt for our legal system, but with no alternative code to keep them "straight". I wonder which is more trustworthy?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Similar examples crop up regularly, often when people wish to raise the indignation level.
I would offer another "thought in passing". Anyone who breaks the law in this country is showing similar contempt for our legal system, but with no alternative code to keep them "straight". I wonder which is more trustworthy?

Nothing whatsoever to do with any "indignation level". I am reporting in cold hard facts exactly what the woman in question stated in a publically broadcast radio interview this morning in which she is adamant that the rule of law that currently exists in Britain does not relate to her.

 

[Flamingo]

That's the basis for the whole Freeman of the Land rubbish, isn't it? The law does not apply to me.

 

[Johnuk123]

Nothing whatsoever to do with any "indignation level". I am reporting in cold hard facts exactly what the woman in question stated in a publically broadcast radio interview this morning in which she is adamant that the rule of law that currently exists in Britain does not relate to her.

This is a very widely held view amongst muslims living here, they have no desire to assimilate whatsoever as that is seen as un Islamic.

 

[Oswyntail]

Nothing whatsoever to do with any "indignation level". I am reporting in cold hard facts exactly what the woman in question stated in a publically broadcast radio interview this morning in which she is adamant that the rule of law that currently exists in Britain does not relate to her.

I realise that, and it is abhorrent. But we hear much the same rejection of the rule of law from other sources - from the trivial - "I can drive safely, so I don't see why I should stick to an arbitrary speed limit" - to the evil - "I just wanted to see what it was like to kill a policewoman". So (as well as my original question) I will ask you this: what contribution do you believe putting that woman's statement in a post will have made to this thread, along with your questions?

 

[fowler9]

Nothing whatsoever to do with any "indignation level". I am reporting in cold hard facts exactly what the woman in question stated in a publically broadcast radio interview this morning in which she is adamant that the rule of law that currently exists in Britain does not relate to her.

To be fair plenty of white, christian, British people think the same, they just don't say it on radio programs. That is where she slipped up.

 

[muz379]

This is a very widely held view amongst muslims living here, they have no desire to assimilate whatsoever as that is seen as un Islamic.

Is there any proof for this ?

 

[fowler9]

This is a very widely held view amongst muslims living here, they have no desire to assimilate whatsoever as that is seen as un Islamic.

Wow, where did you hear that?

 

[Johnuk123]

Is there any proof for this ?

Only today.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/54...Obsessed-Mother-Luton-Jailed-Terror-Newsnight

'UK is last place I'd want to live' Luton-based mother JAILED for terror posts rejects UK

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/d...failing-to-integrate-we-need-to-find-out-why/

Britain is home to dozens of different races. Each has their own unique culture. Many have their own religions. All have experienced prejudice, stigmatisation and discrimination. Yet none have had the same issues in integrating with their host society as Britain’s Muslims.

I should imagine some muslims want to integrate but the numbers that don't and never will is large.

 

[muz379]

Only today.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/54...Obsessed-Mother-Luton-Jailed-Terror-Newsnight




http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/d...failing-to-integrate-we-need-to-find-out-why/



I should imagine some Muslims want to integrate but the numbers that don't and never will is large.

Neither of those however allude to numbers and statistics which is what we would really need to ponder if we where to go about accusing the majority of Muslims of not thinking our legal system applies to them . What I asked for was proof that a majority of Muslims dont consider the Law in England and Wales to be applicable to them . What I got was a couple of examples of cases in which individual Muslims have breached our law .

I dont dispute there will be cases when Muslims will breach our law as that woman in Luton did on numerous occasions . Heck I dont even dispute that some want to establish Sharia law as the primary legal system in the UK and dont consider out law to apply to them as with the "sharia zone" protestors in London if you remember that . But what I do dispute is the fact that you allege that this is a problem with the majority of Muslims which is a relatively strong charge .

 

[fowler9]

Only today.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/54...Obsessed-Mother-Luton-Jailed-Terror-Newsnight




http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/d...failing-to-integrate-we-need-to-find-out-why/



I should imagine some muslims want to integrate but the numbers that don't and never will is large.

Two examples from the more right wing press. That's enough proof for me that most Muslims don't respect the law.

 

[Flamingo]

To be fair, there are plenty of examples to be found in every ethnic group in the country (including White British) that break the law when it suits them as individuals, and in a lot of cases there is an attempt to try and dress this up as either justified civil disobedience (in, for example, the Fare Strikes around Bristol a few years ago when lots of "law abiding" citizens travelled without buying tickets), or as cultural misunderstanding mixed up with racial prejudice (as gets thrown at a Train Guard when trying to get a ticket out of certain (but not all) Travellers, for example).

Certain individuals will always try to find excuses to make themselves the victims and dress up any situation to justify to themselves their anti-social behaviour. But although in certain circumstances there is a genuine crisis of conscience on their part, I see no need to tar everybody with the same brush when it comes to basic adherence to the norms of a civilised society.

 

[Johnuk123]

Two examples from the more right wing press. That's enough proof for me that most Muslims don't respect the law.

The author of the Telegraph piece is Dan Hodges - here are his right wing credentials -

Son of far left mp Glenda Jackson, labour party member for 27 years, ex labour party and GMB official, co founder of Migration Matters a pro immigrant pressure group, Guardian writer, helped Milliband get the labour leadership job.

Very right wing he is.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Neither of those however allude to numbers and statistics which is what we would really need to ponder if we where to go about accusing the majority of Muslims of not thinking our legal system applies to them . What I asked for was proof that a majority of Muslims dont consider the Law in England and Wales to be applicable to them . What I got was a couple of examples of cases in which individual Muslims have breached our law .

I dont dispute there will be cases when Muslims will breach our law as that woman in Luton did on numerous occasions . Heck I dont even dispute that some want to establish Sharia law as the primary legal system in the UK and dont consider out law to apply to them as with the "sharia zone" protestors in London if you remember that . But what I do dispute is the fact that you allege that this is a problem with the majority of Muslims which is a relatively strong charge .

I never said the majority of muslims didn't think our legal system applied to them I said it was a widely held view, very different.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-british-muslims-put-islam-first/

The most comprehensive survey to date of Muslim opinion in Britain. The results from NOP Research, broadcast by Channel 4-TV on August 7, are startling.

Forty-five percent say 9/11 was a conspiracy by the American and Israeli governments. This figure is more than twice as high as those who say it was not a conspiracy. Tragically, almost one in four British Muslims believe that last year's 7/7 attacks on London were justified because of British support for the U.S.-led war on terror.

When asked, "Is Britain my country or their country?" only one in four say it is. Thirty percent of British Muslims would prefer to live under Sharia (Islamic religious) law than under British law. According to the report, "Half of those who express a preference for living under Sharia law say that, given the choice, they would move to a country governed by those laws."

This NOP poll is 8 years old, I very much doubt that muslim opinion is better now.

Sadiq Khan, the Labour MP involved with the official task force set up after the July attacks, said the findings were "alarming". He added: "Vast numbers of Muslims feel disengaged and alienated from mainstream British society."

 

[fowler9]

The author of the Telegraph piece is Dan Hodges - here are his right wing credentials -

Son of far left mp Glenda Jackson, labour party member for 27 years, ex labour party and GMB official, co founder of Migration Matters a pro immigrant pressure group, Guardian writer, helped Milliband get the labour leadership job.

Very right wing he is.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I never said the majority of muslims didn't think our legal system applied to them I said it was a widely held view, very different.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-british-muslims-put-islam-first/



This NOP poll is 8 years old, I very much doubt that muslim opinion is better now.

Fair enough about Dan Hodges. Like most people in society it looks like I agree with him on some things and not on others.

 

[Oswyntail]

The author of the Telegraph piece is Dan Hodges - here are his right wing credentials -.....

The main meat of his blog is about Rotherham. While there is no denying that the problems there were within the Pakistani (not necessarily the Muslim) community, there are many reasons why a Labour supporter would take the line he does. The Labour Party in the northern cities does seem to have a very poor record when it comes to addressing potentially ethnic problems. In Rotherham, they just turned a blind eye. It is much the same in Bradford, albeit with different problems. It is very much in the interests of Labour activists to try to highlight problems as "Muslim" in these areas, rather than as failures in their local politicians.

 

[fowler9]

The main meat of his blog is about Rotherham. While there is no denying that the problems there were within the Pakistani (not necessarily the Muslim) community, there are many reasons why a Labour supporter would take the line he does. The Labour Party in the northern cities does seem to have a very poor record when it comes to addressing potentially ethnic problems. In Rotherham, they just turned a blind eye. It is much the same in Bradford, albeit with different problems. It is very much in the interests of Labour activists to try to highlight problems as "Muslim" in these areas, rather than as failures in their local politicians.

I can agree with that. I lived in Bradford for 4 years as a student and most of the problems related to poverty. While I lived there I was a victim of aggravated burglary I believe it is called. The lads who did it whilst scary where alright with us so to say (At the risk of getting all Stokholm syndrome, they were still scum). They kept saying they weren't racist and they wouldn't take my St Christopher (I was brought up Catholic, I have a St Christopher medal, he is the patron saint of travellers and I travel a lot. I keep it as a gift from my parents which means something rather than any religious belief). They nicked our stuff because they could and because they were poor, not because of any religious compulsion in my opinion. Their original religion actually stopped them taking something dear to me even though I am not religious.

I should clarify why I said that, the guys who came in to our house were dark skinned and I presume from some of their actions they were originally religious. The police caught one and he was sentenced to 5 years for what he did to us and what he had done to several others. I hold no ill will against him and hope he and his friends have got something constructive out of this like I have. I was also mugged in a predominantly white area in Liverpool and left in a pool of blood, found by an off duty police officer. The police eventually caught the two white scouse lads who did it. They both pleaded guilty and did time. All anecdotal of course but I'm happy to provide people with evidence if they want to send a personal message. What disturbed me more was the second one.

 

[Jonny]

Another problem is this piece of theology - the age of consummation of Aisha (see: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Aisha_Age_of_Consummation ), supposedly only nine years old - although many muslims will point out that it was within marriage, and within a different culture to boot, and that they don't condone extramarital sex (and therefore that the issue is a moot point).

However, that might be used by some individuals on a pick-and-choose basis to justify doing whatever they want.

 

[fowler9]

Another problem is this piece of theology - the age of consummation of Aisha (see: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Aisha_Age_of_Consummation ), supposedly only nine years old - although many muslims will point out that it was within marriage, and within a different culture to boot, and that they don't condone extramarital sex (and therefore that the issue is a moot point).

However, that might be used by some individuals on a pick-and-choose basis to justify doing whatever they want.

Have you actually gone out looking for evidence that muslims are predisposed to be pedophiles or did you just happen to know that?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Another problem is this piece of theology - the age of consummation of Aisha (see: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Aisha_Age_of_Consummation ), supposedly only nine years old - although many muslims will point out that it was within marriage, and within a different culture to boot, and that they don't condone extramarital sex (and therefore that the issue is a moot point).

However, that might be used by some individuals on a pick-and-choose basis to justify doing whatever they want.

So? Margaret of Anjou was 15 when she married, Mary de Bohun was 12, Phillipa of Hainault was 14, and Eleanor of Castile was 14 also.

There are things nobody is proud of in everyone's culture. But just because they have happened (or were thought to have happened) is not reflective of society today.

Perhaps some passages from the Bible might help illustrate my point:

But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves

And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh.

 

[muz379]

Very right wing he is.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I never said the majority of muslims didn't think our legal system applied to them I said it was a widely held view, very different.

Ok so its not a view held by a majority of Muslims in Britain , but it is a widely held one .So that puts it somewhere between 5 and 6 Muslims who hold that view then


I could say it is a widely held view amongst poor white people that it is acceptable to commit crimes like burglary , abh and theft - given the numbers of them that are in Prison . But It would be unfair to tar all white people form a certain social background as criminals would it not ?

 

[fowler9]

I think if you did a survey of many white British Christian people and asked them if they are are happy with the laws in this country and how they are upheld they would say no. If you asked many white British Christian people if they would rather live somewhere else they would say yes. I would. I would move to New Zealand tomorrow if I could. Not because I think it is perfect but I would if I could.