Trowbridge to Hereford via Didcot - Valid?

[Techniquest]

Hi all,

Quick question before I decide upon the route I'm going to take, what time I'm going to leave, etc:

Planning a trip from Trowbridge to Hereford on Saturday in order to return to previous home territory and pick up a lot of my stuff still up there. However, I'm dying to get on a HST again and quite fancy doing the following moves:

0644 Trowbridge to Bath Spa
0713 Bath Spa to Didcot Parkway
0855 Didcot Parkway to Oxford (or an earlier one, whichever really)
0921 Oxford to Hereford

Not so fussed about the return journey, but I do want to make the most of the £25-odd I'd be spending on a Trowbridge to Hereford OPR. I am considering splitting instead at Bath Spa, but that knocks out the opportunity to go via Didcot obviously. Since I'm almost certainly coming back the same day, it would be the cheaper option.

Question is though, whilst I'm sure I've seen maps in the Routing Guide allowing the above series of moves, is this actually the case? I can't get online journey planners to recognise it on this occasion, yet I have seen it come up on them before when I've wanted a quick journey

Tried to work the Routing Guide but I cannot fathom it. Would one of the ticketing gurus on this forum be able to guide me as to whether or not I can do such moves legitimately? I've done it on a return portion of a Hereford to Melksham OPR before, back on 3rd January and no problems as I expected.

Hope you guys can help

 

[John @ home]

whilst I'm sure I've seen maps in the Routing Guide allowing the above series of moves, is this actually the case?

Yes. The calculation using the Routeing Guide is:

Trowbridge is a member if Westbury Group Routeing Point. Hereford is a Routeing Point. (Routeing Point info here.)

Permitted routes Westbury Group - Hereford are on maps BD, CE and CS+MW. (Permitted route info here.)

BD allows Westbury Group - (Chippenham or Bradford-on-Avon) - Bath - Bristol - Newport - Hereford. (Map info here.)

CE allows Westbury Group - Bath - Bristol - Cheltenham - Worcester - Hereford with optional deviations via Newport and/or Gloucester.

CS allows Westbury Group - (Melksham or Bath) - Chippenham - Swindon - Didcot - Oxford. Then MW allows Didcot - Oxford - Worcester - Hereford.

I can't get online journey planners to recognise it on this occasion

eastcoast displays journey times and fares if you search for "Trowbridge - Hereford via Oxford".

One anomaly occurs to me. There are no First Class fares Trowbridge - Hereford. But Trowbridge - Bath - Didcot - Hereford is a 166-mile journey and 153 miles can be done in First Class. So if you go to Trowbridge and ask for a First Class Return to Hereford via Oxford, I think they have to sell you a ticket calculated at the FGW multiplier of 1.8 times the full Standard fare. The full Standard fare is the most expensive Standard return, which is the £39.40 SVR. This gives a First Class Return fare of about £71. On the other hand, if you go to Bath station and ask for a First Class Return to Hereford via Oxford, I suspect they would sell you a £114.60 FOR Bath - Oxford route Not Reading and a £70 FOR Oxford - Hereford, total £184.60.

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks for the reply, most appreciated. Glad to see I am actually valid that way then

Looking on the East Coast site, asking it to go via Didcot Parkway brings up some interesting results. One such example was Hereford > Newport > Bristol Temple Meads > Didcot Parkway > Swindon > Bath > Trowbridge! On the outward for tomorrow morning, it gave me the following option:

0644 Trowbridge to Bath Spa
0713 Bath Spa to Didcot Parkway
0812 Didcot Parkway to Swindon
0838 Swindon to Newport
1005 Newport to Hereford

Both are just two examples of some interesting routings, but the question has to be begged as to why! The most interesting one I've seen, which has got me tempted to book the tickets and reserve seats right now though is this one:

0713 Trowbridge to Bath
0743 Bath to Reading
0854 Reading to Hereford

The reason why I want to book that is because interestingly it avoids the need to change at Didcot and suffer the 165/166 to Oxford, with more HST mileage. Plus of course if I have seat reservations they can hardly say I'm not on a valid route!

That FC anomaly is certainly interesting, although I am not rich enough to afford it anyway

Thanks again for looking it up and confirming my view that it is valid to go via at least Didcot

 

[John @ home]

just two examples of some interesting routings, but the question has to be begged as to why! The most interesting one I've seen, which has got me tempted to book the tickets and reserve seats right now though is this one:

0713 Trowbridge to Bath
0743 Bath to Reading
0854 Reading to Hereford

The reason why I want to book that is because interestingly it avoids the need to change at Didcot and suffer the 165/166 to Oxford, with more HST mileage. Plus of course if I have seat reservations they can hardly say I'm not on a valid route!

I think the reason why these interesting routeings arise is due to the way the Routeing Guide is written. It lays down a large number of rules. It does not always state the order in which the rules must be applied. But the software writers who have produced the on-line booking engines needed to know this, so they had to guess. These different guesses are the reasons why the different booking engines implement slightly different interpretations of the Routeing Guide.

In the example Hereford > Newport > Bristol Temple Meads > Didcot Parkway > Swindon > Bath > Trowbridge this route can be allowed or prohibited depending on the point in the process where the route is checked for doubling-back. One booking engine appears to check:

1. Is Hereford - Didcot - Trowbridge a permitted route? YES
2. Find Hereford - Didcot journey.
3. Does Hereford - Didcot journey avoid doubling-back? YES
4. Find Didcot - Trowbridge journey.
5. Does Didcot - Trowbridge journey avoid doubling-back? YES
Therefore Hereford - Didcot - Trowbridge journey is permitted.

Another booking engine appears to check:

1. Is Hereford - Didcot - Trowbridge a permitted route? YES
2. Find Hereford - Didcot journey.
3. Find Didcot - Trowbridge journey.
4. Combine to form Hereford - Didcot - Trowbridge journey.
5. Does Hereford - Didcot - Trowbridge journey avoid doubling-back? NO
Therefore Hereford - Didcot - Trowbridge journey is not permitted.

The routeing via Reading may be due to the interaction of the routeing for this journey with one of the easements.

82 Journeys via Swindon and Didcot or via Swindon to Didcot and routed Not London may double back between Reading and Didcot. This easements applies in both directions.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/easements.pdf

This Easement applies to journeys such as Cardiff - Oxford, where there is a cheaper route Not Reading fare which requires a change at Didcot and a more expensive route Not London fare which allows doubling-back via Reading. At first sight, Easement 82 would not appear to impact on a Trowbridge - Hereford journey, where the routeing is Any Permitted.

But there are some journeys where there is a cheaper route Not London fare and a more expensive route Any Permitted fare which allows doubling-back. Brighton - Surbiton is an example. But a passenger with a more expensive ticket is allowed to choose to go by a cheaper route. Page F17 of the Routeing Guide explains this, using the example of a London - Huddersfield ticket.

London - Huddersfield

The yellow pages list 5 routes for this journey. If the ticket is unrouted or has the route “Any Permitted”, any of these routes may be used. There is also a routed fare via Manchester. A ticketholder with a ticket routed “Manchester” must go via Manchester and therefore only has a choice of those routes in the list that include Manchester. This excludes MM. If the “Any Permitted” fare is less than the “Manchester” routed fare, the ticketholder may not go via Manchester. If the “Any Permitted” fare is more than the “Manchester” routed fare it may be used via Manchester.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/nrg_detail.pdf

The Trowbridge - Hereford route “Any Permitted” ticket is the most expensive route available with a walk-on ticket - it's the only one! One booking engine interprets this to mean that Easement 82 must apply and allows travel via Reading. Another booking engine does not.

 

[Techniquest]

Wow, that's only a tad confusing, which is why I've never gotten my head around it all.

Changed plans to now go today, and booked tickets on the EC website. Fantastic booking engine but I still couldn't get any reservations, despite booking over 2 hours ago now. Love the route I've got:

0713 Trowbridge to Bath
0743 Bath to Reading
0852 Reading to Hereford

Nice small 8 minutes connection there, going to be fun...

Coming back, a funky route was given (shame I don't have a printer to prove it gave it me):

1843 Hereford to Newport
1939 Newport to Didcot
2126 Didcot to Bath
2218 Bath to Trowbridge

Not fond of the mere +7 at Newport there, but the Paddington-bound HSTs are nearly always late leaving anyway. Just hoping the 1630 Manchester Piccadilly to Milford Haven isn't late!

Thanks for that post, trying to get my tired head around it still but I'll get there.

Hoping now for knowledgeable TMs along the route! In the meantime, it's time to get everything ready!