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Trivia: Villages completely bypassed by buses

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nw1

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Surely one of the big advantages of buses is that they can serve village centres or housing estates more effectively than, say, trains.

It seems to be a shame that buses cannot make 5-min diversions into larger villages close by the route, but I guess it might mean the route would require an extra vehicle in order to do so.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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Surely one of the big advantages of buses is that they can serve village centres or housing estates more effectively than, say, trains.

It seems to be a shame that buses cannot make 5-min diversions into larger villages close by the route, but I guess it might mean the route would require an extra vehicle in order to do so.
Another example, that perhaps encapsulates the problem, is at Detling. Like many examples highlighted, the village sits on a major trunk road.

In this case, it is bisected by the dual carriageway A249 linking Maidstone with Sittingbourne that carries lots of traffic including HGVs. There were/are two stops on laybys by the carriageways. There is a footbridge, called Jade's Crossing, that was only built following the death of a young girl and her grandmother whilst attempting to cross the road (and only then after a fundraising campaign).

Save for a community minibus that serves the larger, southern part of the village, the village is served only peripherally by the A249 stops and understandably so. A bus would have to climb past the village, turn right across the descending two lanes of traffic, loop through the village, and then back down to the M20 and then retrace its steps up the A249. Like many of these instances, the time penalty is too great for the minimal patronage (and we often complain about how slow some journeys are) and there are genuine health and safety issues in having a relatively slow moving vehicle performing crossing manoeuvres on dual carriageways.

As for footbridges, at Detling, it took the death of a child and a local fundraiser to shame the council into building a footbridge and this at a village which is split in half. At other places where it's the odd passenger at an isolated stop, the cost benefit just doesn't stack up.
 

TheSel

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Arriva Merseyside's 300 service used to turn off the main A565 to serve the village of Haskayne (going back right through to Ribble days, then the 300/302). There is now a stop on the main road, a short walk from one end of the village but a reasonable walk from the furthest houses and too far to walk to the village school. This has saved possibly 10 minutes off the route (approx 1 1/2 hrs long).
Whilst that is true in itself, Haskayne is NOT "completely bypassed by buses" as in the title of the thread. Service 152 - a Merseytravel / Lancashire County Council joint tendered service, presently operated by Huyton Travel Limited (HTL) serves the village 5 times a day in each direction on its journeys connecting Southport ~ Ormskirk ~ St Helens.

Timetable embedded for those interested.
 

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JGurney

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Have you thought of how much that would cost compared to the usage? Just not cost effective.
However if the building or widening of the main road has had the effects of cutting off the local bus service and severely obstructing local pedestrian journeys (e.g.from outlying houses on one side of the new dual carriageway to the village centre on the other) then it seems very unjust that pedestrians and bus users should be expected to just suck up this imposition so that the motorists can have their convenience catered for a little more cheaply.
 

lachlan

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Another example, that perhaps encapsulates the problem, is at Detling. Like many examples highlighted, the village sits on a major trunk road.

In this case, it is bisected by the dual carriageway A249 linking Maidstone with Sittingbourne that carries lots of traffic including HGVs. There were/are two stops on laybys by the carriageways. There is a footbridge, called Jade's Crossing, that was only built following the death of a young girl and her grandmother whilst attempting to cross the road (and only then after a fundraising campaign).

Save for a community minibus that serves the larger, southern part of the village, the village is served only peripherally by the A249 stops and understandably so. A bus would have to climb past the village, turn right across the descending two lanes of traffic, loop through the village, and then back down to the M20 and then retrace its steps up the A249. Like many of these instances, the time penalty is too great for the minimal patronage (and we often complain about how slow some journeys are) and there are genuine health and safety issues in having a relatively slow moving vehicle performing crossing manoeuvres on dual carriageways.

As for footbridges, at Detling, it took the death of a child and a local fundraiser to shame the council into building a footbridge and this at a village which is split in half. At other places where it's the odd passenger at an isolated stop, the cost benefit just doesn't stack up.
How it was deemed acceptable to allow a dual carriageway to split up a village in the first place I don't know.

Looks like there is actually a (very infrequent) bus that runs through the village however!
 

Deerfold

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That's not completely right for the history...

The 653 was still running to Harrogate at the start of 2009, albeit on a reduced service running only 5 journeys each way right through and nothing north of Otley after 4pm – but at some point between 2005 and 2008 it stopped serving North Rigton.
Yes - I had a mistype there - that should have said "stopped serving North Rigton" (not Harrogate).
The X52/X53 started in July 2009, when the 653 was withdrawn, restoring the hourly service between Harrogate and Otley, but the service has never returned to North Rigton.
I'd thought there was a gap - but it might just have been the dire level of service on the 653 by then made it of no use to me.
I don't know about the R7, but by 2005 the evening and Sunday journeys between Harrogate and Otley were numbered 904 and were run by Aztecbird.
The 904 with the short-lived Aztecbird came much later - I do remember them. The R7 only ran evenings as the 654 Bradford - Knaresborough was still running on Sundays. Like the 904, the connections with the 653 were abysmal - though I used to catch it to my girlfriend's in Harrogate after a drink or two in Otley. She moved in 2001.
The airport bus started as the 767 in 2006, run by Harrogate & District, between Harrogate and LBIA only, then in 2010 it was taken over by Dales & District. In 2011 it became the 737 running through to Bradford, run by Centrebus, then in 2014 it became the 747 with a different route through Bradford (and now run by Tiger) before eventually becoming the Transdev Flyer A2 in 2020 ... but none of these incarnations have served North Rigton.
Don't forget that for a while (2016-17) Harrogate was linked hourly to Keighley https://web.archive.org/web/20170422123947/https://getdown.org.uk/bus/bus/62.shtml
Huby had 3 buses an hour for a while - though not very well spaced out.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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Looks like there is actually a (very infrequent) bus that runs through the village however!
That's the community minibus I referenced. It only serves the southern portion and very infrequently, as you say.

How it was deemed acceptable to allow a dual carriageway to split up a village in the first place I don't know.
I suspect that the A249 was a busy single carriageway road (the southbound carriageway down the hill?) and included what is the main road through the southern part of the village. When the M20 was built, they rerouted the A249 and that was the obvious route.
 

duncombec

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Another example, that perhaps encapsulates the problem, is at Detling. Like many examples highlighted, the village sits on a major trunk road.

In this case, it is bisected by the dual carriageway A249 linking Maidstone with Sittingbourne that carries lots of traffic including HGVs. There were/are two stops on laybys by the carriageways. There is a footbridge, called Jade's Crossing, that was only built following the death of a young girl and her grandmother whilst attempting to cross the road (and only then after a fundraising campaign).

Save for a community minibus that serves the larger, southern part of the village, the village is served only peripherally by the A249 stops and understandably so. A bus would have to climb past the village, turn right across the descending two lanes of traffic, loop through the village, and then back down to the M20 and then retrace its steps up the A249. Like many of these instances, the time penalty is too great for the minimal patronage (and we often complain about how slow some journeys are) and there are genuine health and safety issues in having a relatively slow moving vehicle performing crossing manoeuvres on dual carriageways.

As for footbridges, at Detling, it took the death of a child and a local fundraiser to shame the council into building a footbridge and this at a village which is split in half. At other places where it's the odd passenger at an isolated stop, the cost benefit just doesn't stack up.
That's the community minibus I referenced. It only serves the southern portion and very infrequently, as you say.

I was going to mention Detling, but it is officially out of scope for the thread because it has the community minibus and a southbound journey on the X3 each morning (currently not showing on bustimes... it seems to be suffering Disappearing Variation Syndrome, as mentioned in other Stagecoach threads).

The Community Minibus is operated by Compaid with a large-style Sprinter - it's not a Transit sort of community minibus. Note that although it could, in theory, run via the A249 southbound, it runs via Hockers Lane both ways as a lengthy double-run, presumably for consistency of route. It is (now) simply impossible for a bus to legitimately serve the village northbound. Southbound, although there is a slip road, traffic leaving the A249 for the village has to perform a hairpin turn - not easy in a car, and even less in a bus. I'd have to investigate the back of the cupboard to recall what happened in Arriva 333 days, but I suspect it was southbound only even then (or the turning capabilities were different - see below).

In terms of "portion size", only about a quarter is north of the A249, and the southern section has all of the services. It's theoretically easier for the northern portion to travel southbound, as they have a crossroads into the other part of the village, than it is for the southern section to travel northbound.

How it was deemed acceptable to allow a dual carriageway to split up a village in the first place I don't know.
I suspect that the A249 was a busy single carriageway road (the southbound carriageway down the hill?) and included what is the main road through the southern part of the village. When the M20 was built, they rerouted the A249 and that was the obvious route.
1961 road planning, I suspect! Detling village is also very narrow (now), and on a steep hill. The A249 was widened to allow easy journeys between the M20 and M2. I can't find the side-by-side comparison easily, but compare this map from 1961: https://maps.nls.uk/view/91577487#zoom=6&lat=7442&lon=3398&layers=BT with this one from 1964: https://maps.nls.uk/view/197237099#zoom=6&lat=7461&lon=3181&layers=BT

I imagine the road was built to a future 'proofed' size, where it may still have been reasonable to cross the road - the A229 Blue Bell Hill is not dissimilar in that regard - but as the decades went on, it was increasingly untenable. Such are now the traffic speeds on the A249 that almost all bus stops have been withdrawn for safety reasons - I think Jade's Crossing is the only pair that remain open between the Chiltern Hundreds and Key Street (Google maps says the X3 stops at Rumstead Lane, but I'm 98% certain it doesn't, and never has). Not only that, a number of the crossovers for road traffic have been banned (and often closed completely with fixed crash barriers), and the general advice for all traffic attending the Kent County Showground is to enter from the south and leave to the north - even cars tend to prefer this to diving across three lanes of traffic even where it is allowed.

I don't have experience of any of the other examples on this thread, but to round off and get back on topic, it seems in all cases where villages are "bypassed by buses", the costs of doing so wildly outweigh the benefits of diverting.
 

Man of Kent

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Detling has been weaned off the main bus network in various stages.

Firstly, the direct southbound entrance into the village was sealed up. The alternative has a rather short deceleration lane, followed by a sharp 180 degree turn - not ideal in a bus, and less so before the speed limit was reduced to 50mph.

Secondly, the direct northbound exit, involving crossing the carriageway was sealed up. The manoeuvre was considered risky enough that in the past, Maidstone & District Leyland Nationals allocated to the route had reflective strips applied behind the rear wheels to improve their visibility when using this junction.

That meant that northbound buses had to return southwards to the M20 roundabout to turn before finally heading towards Sittingbourne, adding around 3 or 4 minutes on to a 30 minute journey from Maidstone to Sittingbourne - more in the peaks.

When Jade's Crossing was built, the northbound services were removed from the village, except for the peak afternoon school bus. I think it was at this point that the northbound bus stop on the A249 was opened - there were previously none south of the top of the hill (the County Showground, in fact - another place where there was no proper provision to cross the road).

But because there is no A249 southbound stop, Maidstone-bound buses continued to run through the village. As with many rural settlements, the volume and size of cars has increased - it was almost impossible to pass through the village without having to drive on the pavement at some point to pass a parked SUV.

Eventually some common sense prevailed - the bus would attract far more passengers if it stayed on the main road and zipped past in a few seconds, rather than a meandering diversion frequently neither picking up nor setting anyone down. Indeed, when Arriva doubled the frequency, the new 334 journeys did not serve the village, and in time, the 333 followed; all except the morning school journey, that is.

With a flush local authority at the time, the Detling Hopper service was started to fill the gap. The timetable has been modified since its introduction; it now serves a wider area and that it survived Kent's bonfire of subsidy reductions says something about its passenger figures, but they certainly aren't all coming from Detling.

Finally, Arriva's withdrawal from the route saw Kent ask Stagecoach to divert one morning journey through the village for school traffic. The X3 is otherwise registered as limited stop along the A249, with only the Rumstead Lane stop observed - and as duncombec notes, most other stops had been closed on safety grounds anyway.

I'm sure there are similar stories elsewhere, where the impact of crossing a dual carriageway adds considerable time and risk to the operation, and ultimately, more people are inconvenienced than benefit from the diversion. One that persists is on the 4 between Ayr and Kilmarnock, which dives into Symington, but it is no longer an in-and-out, but a double run to a turning circle and retrace your steps back to the dual carriageway, using a flyover in the southbound direction. Remarkably, this diversion continues to run every 30 minutes, seeing four buses an hour use the turning circle, but the 37 minute Ayr to Kilmarnock journey time of 35 years ago is now 49 minutes.
 

Teapot42

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Surely one of the big advantages of buses is that they can serve village centres or housing estates more effectively than, say, trains.

It seems to be a shame that buses cannot make 5-min diversions into larger villages close by the route, but I guess it might mean the route would require an extra vehicle in order to do so.
I'd say it depends on context. If it is just one village then maybe, but I recall as a child going to Beamish and the number of twists and turns the bus took before getting there. Then I learned to drive and we could get there is a tiny fraction of the time.

There is always a balance between serving as many places as possible and providing a service people want to use.
 

Jellyfish261

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Cardiff Bus 96 skips Wenvoe, could realistically do so without too much of a penalty by using the two roundabout junctions and Old Port Road.

There is a footbridge over the A4050 to get to the southbound stop, but this is not accessible.
 

MisterSheeps

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Levens, south of Kendal, is an interesting case, just off the A590, a mile from the A6, hourly nearby buses, no pavement to access them. The southbound A6 (555 service, Kendal to Lancaster) is one way only, so the nearest stops are Levens Bridge or before leaving the A590. The northbound A6 does a diversion, for the nearest stop on a slip road to the A590; i.e. you can get a bus away from near Levens. The X6 (Kendal to Barrow) goes on the A590 past the 2 roads into Levens without any stops, even though it serves much smaller settlements (e.g. Gilpin Bridge, Milllside). I considered living there, but the lack of buses put me off :frown:
 

AlastairFraser

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Dorchester in Oxfordshire is served by Oxford-Reading service X40 at a stop on the bypass only. There are lay-bys with a shelter each side and a footbridge, if memory serves me right.
I regret to inform you that Going Forward Buses (a local community bus company) run 4 buses a day Weds and Friday through Dorchester village (also serving the old main Shillingford Road north out of Wallingford, which is otherwise bereft of buses).
 

SCH117X

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I don't know about the R7, but by 2005 the evening and Sunday journeys between Harrogate and Otley were numbered 904 and were run by Aztecbird.
Actually R4 and even weirder originally the publicity referred to the R4A, operated by Harrogate & District. After Aztecbird it was operated by Pegasus
 
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Stagecoach east Scotland X7 and 39 bypass muirdrum between dundee and arbroath but the 73 serves the village heading to/from Carnoustie
 

Deerfold

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Actually R4 and even weirder originally the publicity referred to the R4A, operated by Harrogate & District. After Aztecbird it was operated by Pegasus
Thank you. Apologies for the faulty memory. I always wondered why it was numbered like that - I did look to see if there were other similarly number tendered services in North Yorkshire (I knew there weren't in West Yorkshire) but I didn't find any. 9xx services are often West Yorkshire tendered services, on the other hand.
 

Jellyfish261

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Talybont (the one by Bangor) another contender, though may be pushing the 'realistic' criteria - the hairpin bend and low bridge would certainly make for an interesting ride...

Though there is a bus shelter on the junction of Cae Gwiglin and Coetmor Road - so presumably has been a service in the past.

Either way, the Arriva 5's regularly stop on the main road, which is probably a sensible compromise in this case.
 
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