Trivia: The worst/most confusing stations to change trains at

[Basil Jet]

I've seen those 3D plans before, but there are a few problems with them.

1. Some stations are missing, in particular the circle/hammersmith and city station at paddington does not seem to be included.
2. They are out of date (though this is a problem with NR maps as well) and in particular they predate crossrail.
3. There is no information on how they link up with NR stations.

This renders them of limited utility for interchange planning.

They only show stations which are actually under the ground, which Paddington Circle & Hammersmith isn't.

 

[matacaster]

Colchester's "longest platform" is two platforms of roughly 12-coach length laid end-to-end (on completely separate lines - a little like platforms 2 and 3 at Woking, except they're linked via a crossover) so the sub-divisions issue doesn't really arise.
The longest physical platform is Gloucester, which splits into two sub-divisions - though its purpose was to handle two HSTs at the same time. Given the trains generally operate in shorter formations at Leeds, a split into more sub-divisions, though the physical length of the platform may be shorter, would probably make more sense than just splitting it into two or three.
All of Nottingham's platforms were/are split into sub-divisions (except for the bay platform 2) despite their relative lack of length (12-or-so coaches on most of the platforms, which were split into three sub-divisions, though the four-coach-length platform 4 was split into two sub-divisions to facilitate the simultaneous arrival of a train from Lincoln to Leicester and departure of a train to Leeds. Platform 5 (which had a Colchester-like arrangement with the "new" platform 4 so was short in comparison to platforms 1, 3, 6, and 7) may not have been split into sub-divisions (given it could only handle one train at a time, though it served both St Pancras and Cardiff services), but I seem to remember it was - though it is many years since I've lived in the Nottingham area and even more years since I've visited Nottingham station). Short the platforms may have been, though sub-divisions were necessary given most trains had either two or three coaches (and obviously the longer services would be announced as departing from platform 6 rather than 6b, etc.). Admittedly few trains used sub-division "c", possibly because the only permissive arrangements that usually occurred on full-length platforms involved trains arriving into the west "a" end, and possibly because the "c" ends were more exposed to the elements - though it was very useful to know precisely where on the platform the train would stop (something BHM could learn a bit from!) when I had heavy luggage!

Anyway, getting back on topic, Doncaster's quite difficult to change at for me - and platform 0 only makes things worse. And, twisting it slightly but staying with Nottingham, the interchange at Highbury Vale between the Hucknall and Phoenix Park branches is horrible - no wonder they advise changing at David Lane. To be honest, the Phoenix Park platform should probably be taken out of use - it's not as if having to change at David Lane will cause more inconvenience than working out how to find the branch platform at Highbury Vale!

Wasn't the combined Manchester Victoria / exchange platform the longest at one time?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Wasn't the combined Manchester Victoria / exchange platform the longest at one time?

Once upon a time. Was just over 680m long. However, Exchange station closed in 1969. Long time ago, now!

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Regarding Birmingham New St, and we have discussed how bad it is at length on a previous thread, the other option for getting between platforms is the footbridge at the extreme "Wolverhampton" end of the station. Never crowded, and offers access to all platforms except 1. Also the best way to exit the station if heading towards The Mailbox or similar.

Platform 1 (and 12) are now included, albeit the stairs to/from each are not on the bridge itself but at the extreme ends. The stairs to/from platform 1 are opposite the ticket barriers at the Navigation Street end, and the stairs to platform 12 are next to the barriers at the Hill Street end.

 

[xotGD]

Platform 1 (and 12) are now included, albeit the stairs to/from each are not on the bridge itself but at the extreme ends. The stairs to/from platform 1 are opposite the ticket barriers at the Navigation Street end, and the stairs to platform 12 are next to the barriers at the Hill Street end.

Even better!

 

[Revaulx]

The 'arch' and rest of the original Euston were rather further back from Euston Road. Even now the concourse is hardly next to Euston Road.

I thought that Euston Square Underground Station (which isn't actually in Euston Square) was originally called Gower Street (which it is next to).

One end of the Euston Square platforms IS in, or adjacent to, Euston Square.

The problem is that the entrance to the platforms is at the other end, as far away from Euston Square as it could be.

 

[maniacmartin]

What’s with all the hate for Stratford? I have always found it easy to navigate.

Stations that I’ve been to and found hard to navigate are:

- Birmingham New St (although I’ve not been recently. It was being redeveloped when I last went)

- Hong Kong Central - it’s inside a massive shopping centre and getting to/from the airport platforms to the exit you want is difficult especially as different exits are on different levels due to walkways that cross the street

- Taipei Main Station. It takes up an entire city block and has five floors open to the public, four of which are underground. There are no windows so orienting yourself to find the exit you want is hard. Three different companies serve it, all with separate gate lines and ticket offices. And of course it’s kind of also a shopping centre too. At least the signs are dual language in English. It’s very similar to how I imagine some of the big Japanese stations are.
This is unlike Antwerp Central which also has a lot of underground levels, but due to a large light shaft in the centre of the station and uniform layout on each floor is very easy to navigate.

- Gatwick Airport. The official bicycle entrance if not arriving on the A23/M23 is very difficult to find indeed

Also adding in a dishourable mention to Fenchurch Street if you arrive from the street and want to find the ticket office!

 

[AlbertBeale]

What’s with all the hate for Stratford? I have always found it easy to navigate.

Stations that I’ve been to and found hard to navigate are:

- Birmingham New St (although I’ve not been recently. It was being redeveloped when I last went)

- Hong Kong Central - it’s inside a massive shopping centre and getting to/from the airport platforms to the exit you want is difficult especially as different exits are on different levels due to walkways that cross the street

- Taipei Main Station. It takes up an entire city block and has five floors open to the public, four of which are underground. There are no windows so orienting yourself to find the exit you want is hard. Three different companies serve it, all with separate gate lines and ticket offices. And of course it’s kind of also a shopping centre too. At least the signs are dual language in English. It’s very similar to how I imagine some of the big Japanese stations are.
This is unlike Antwerp Central which also has a lot of underground levels, but due to a large light shaft in the centre of the station and uniform layout on each floor is very easy to navigate.

- Gatwick Airport. The official bicycle entrance if not arriving on the A23/M23 is very difficult to find indeed

Also adding in a dishourable mention to Fenchurch Street if you arrive from the street and want to find the ticket office!

Finding a ticket office can be a problem, even on stations with a straightforward layout in other respects. The first time I arrived by train at Brighton after the last reshuffling of station facilities, I needed the ticket office to make an adjustment to my ticket [I'd been sold the wrong sort of cheap ticket and needed a zero excess to one with a different restriction for the return]. The office wasn't in its previous (and obvious) place by the main entrance/exit, and I wandered round the concourse for 5 minutes or so before I found it - I was astounded that there was no signage I could see anywhere which pointed to the corner it had been hidden in.

Similarly, entering the Waterloo concourse from the side entrance on the south side the other day (a quite well used access point), I realised that there was no signage I could see to direct anyone to the ticket office. It wasn't until I was almost on top of it, behind one of the commercial outlets more than half way across the concourse [why are there shops in the middle of the concourse as well as round the edge?!?] that its whereabouts became apparent. If I hadn't already known where it was I'm sure I'd have had trouble finding it.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Five platforms. Local passengers seem to struggle with Bradford Forster Square with three platforms and New Pudsey with two, so don't think they should go to Leeds with 17?

Leeds actually has eighteen - don't forget platform zero!

 

[JRT]

Leeds actually has eighteen - don't forget platform zero!

Ah yes, forgot about that. I was going count up all of the parts platform 17b down to 0a but decided not to bother

 

[LancasterRed]

Stratford, Birmingham New Street and Penn Station have been discussed at length already (and I concur) so I'd like to nominate Bournemouth as an annoying station to change at. As it is not really designed as an interchange, it is unsuitable in the rare event you are required to change there, but the kicker is if you decide to leave the station to use the amenities. (or as I did last time, head into town) Asda itself is, imo, a pain to navigate especially leaving. I struggled worse with getting a McDonald's and getting back to the London train than I did using Penn. In terms of if you choose to stay on the station, limited seating is annoying and the facilities could be improved on.

Other annoying interchanges that are straightforward enough but that I personally feel frustrated by are Paddington (Subsurface to Mainline) and Bristol Temple Meads.

 

[Jim the Jim]

I'll add another vote for Birmingham New Street. Despite using it maybe once or twice a year since the redesign, I'm still not sure I entirely understand the layout. Though perhaps part of the confusion is that I was extremely familiar with the old layout, so it gets to me that it's no longer the same.

 

[stantheman]

Edinhurgh Waverley ...very poor signage and I still can’t get used to the new platform numbers .

 

[Revilo]

Smethwick Galton Bridge is well signed with colour-coded (and numbered) platforms…but it is still disorientating!

 

[PGAT]

Surprised Norwood Junction hasn't been mentioned here. Has 6 platforms which are all connected by one very small underpass with no step-free access and has very narrow platforms, whilst having over 1 million annual changes.

 

[stuu]

Bristol Temple Meads.

Really? Because of the numbering?

 

[GoneSouth]

Really? Because of the numbering?

To be fair the numbering is strange at Temple Meads. Leeds has been discussed for having platforms 7a -7d etc, however BTM has a different approach, preferring to use different numbers for one physical platform split into shorter lengths. It would be nice if there was consistency across the network

If there’s a long platform at a station that can hold more than one train at a time, give it one number and split down to a, b, c etc, not just change the number half way down the platform!

I expect someone will come along now and tell me they prefer the numbering at BTM

Link to national radio station plan for Temple Meads:

Find a Station | National Rail

You can find information about every single National Rail served station in Great Britain – and there are 2,589 of them! From facilities to access information, ticket buying and collection, onward travel and more helpful knowledge.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[stuu]

I would say there is no clear benefit either way. The different numbers as at BTM are at least more distinct than a letter... and from the subway it is not even obvious that they are the same platform - the stairs to each are labelled according to the number they point towards

 

[robert thomas]

I would say there is no clear benefit either way. The different numbers as at BTM are at least more distinct than a letter... and from the subway it is not even obvious that they are the same platform - the stairs to each are labelled according to the number they point towards

I would say there is no clear benefit either way. The different numbers as at BTM are at least more distinct than a letter... and from the subway it is not even obvious that they are the same platform - the stairs to each are labelled according to the number they point towards

The main problem at Temple Meads is that trains tend to stop at the far end of the platforms meaning that if changing trains it can mean a very long walk from the end of one platform through the subway to the opposite end of another platform

 

[bspahh]

The BBC World Service has a program on a facelift for New York’s Penn Station

BBC World Service - Business Daily, Will a multibillion dollar project get Americans back on trains?

We visit Penn Station in New York City which is getting a massive revamp.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ctom_s]

Agree with Stratford, they brought out new maps to help but these had (in my opinion) a terrible design so not sure they would have helped much. Good luck finding platform 10a.

London Bridge before the new concourse was fully opened was dreadful time-wise (going from say tube to NR), tho I guess probably not that confusing.

And don't get me started on Chatelet - Les Halles in Paris. There are separate metro stations for Chatelet and Les Halles, but the associated RER station is called Chatelet - Les Halles

Isn't this similar to the Elizabeth line at Lpool Street/Moorgate, tho I guess the difference is the Elizabeth Line isn't called Lpool Street-Moorgate

 

[AlbertBeale]

And don't get me started on Chatelet - Les Halles in Paris. There are separate metro stations for Chatelet and Les Halles, but the associated RER station is called Chatelet - Les Halles

Isn't this similar to the Elizabeth line at Lpool Street/Moorgate, tho I guess the difference is the Elizabeth Line isn't called Lpool Street-Moorgate

If you heard the Radio 4 programme "Mark Steel's in Town" when he did an edition from Paris recently, you'll have heard tales of Chatelet - Les Halles. I remember the first time I went there, years back, when it might not have been as massive as it is now ... and I decided that in future I'd always look at the metro map and find a different place to change!

 

[plugwash]

And don't get me started on Chatelet - Les Halles in Paris. There are separate metro stations for Chatelet and Les Halles, but the associated RER station is called Chatelet - Les Halles

Here in the Uk we have the opposite, two mainline rail stations (London Kings Cross and London St pancras Inernational) sharing an undergound station "Kings Cross St pancras").

There are also a couple of crossrail stations that link to multiple existing stations. Liverpool Street Crossrail also links to Moorgate and Farringdon Crossrail also links to Barbican (though the link to Barbican that was finally built is very low capacity. I belive the original plans were for a much more substantial one).

 

[LancasterRed]

Really? Because of the numbering?

I've never had issue with the numbering. I have, however, had issue with where the train stops and lack of seating areas on the platform. It wouldn't detract me from using the station travelling solo but isn't good to use when travelling in groups. I remember a lot of the shops not being open last time I used it too, it could have been staff sickness or something else but was disappointing.