Trivia: 'Local' bus routes that extend into another county

[Deerfold]

84 was a Central area route which went first to TfL.

No, TfL never ran the 84. It was already being run commercially by Metroline when TfL started. It did take all TfL tickets for several years as far as Potters Bar.

It was run by London Transport (London Buses) from 1986 until 1989. From 1 April 1989 it has been run commercially by Metroline (with some school and evening services from time to time being contracted to Herts CC).

 

[LancasterRed]

Services in Lancaster are generally served by local operators and Stagecoach but there's one Preston Bus service on a Sunday that runs through the city and then up to North Yorkshire. This would be the 830 - part of the DalesBus routes. There are also others such as a Northallerton service however these are not listed on the Preston Bus website, so I do not believe they fall into this category.

Preston Bus, similarly, operate to Wigan and formerly Southport, before Stagecoach took over the latter.

As for Lancaster, the 555 has seen prior mention. There are also independent free shuttles run by a Kirkby Lonsdale coach firm on university open days, if this counts.

 

[Alex 2901]

I think you are right. It may even have stopped in Warwickshire - I think there is a stop near Stonebridge roundabout. Meriden is in Solihull MBC.

One stop on the X1 (the new number for the 900) is outside of the West Midlands, on Maxstoke Lane (Old Hall Farm), towards Coventry only. This is due to the layout of the junction for Meriden off the A45, which enters Meriden via Shepherds Lane/Maxstoke Lane, but leaves via Birmingham Road.

Another couple of "local" routes that leave the West Midlands into other counties include:

1 - Walsall to Huntington (Staffordshire)
2/E - Walsall to Cannock/Hednesford (Staffordshire)
3/C - Walsall to Cannock (Staffordshire)
5/A - Wolverhampton to Codsall (Staffordshire)
539 - Coventry to Kenilworth (Warwickshire)
580 - Coventry to Rugby (Warwickshire)
735 - Coventry to Furnace End/Fillongley (Warwickshire)

 

[MedwayValiant]

Services in Lancaster are generally served by local operators and Stagecoach but there's one Preston Bus service on a Sunday that runs through the city and then up to North Yorkshire. This would be the 830 - part of the DalesBus routes. There are also others such as a Northallerton service however these are not listed on the Preston Bus website, so I do not believe they fall into this category.

As well as the 555 to Kendal and points beyond, Lancaster also has regular services on the 80 to Ingleton (North Yorkshire) and the 81 to Kirkby Lonsdale (Cumbria).

When I first saw this thread with the word "local" in the title, I imagined that the OP was really thinking of services that we would think of as "town services" - much as that term has no precise definition - but which creep into another county. The 16 from Chester to Saltney is a classic example, since there are no fields between Chester and Saltney and but for the signage you wouldn't know that you had left the City of Chester and crept into Wales.

Similarly, there must be any number of local services in Leicester which continue into Leicestershire, and even more in Nottingham which continue into Nottinghamshire. (Everything south of the Trent and east of the Halfpenny Bridge is in Nottinghamshire rather than the City of Nottingham, including the cricket ground and the Nottingham Forest football ground.)

A couple of less obvious ones which come to mind. The 166 from Chatham to Lords Wood is a classic town service which never leaves the built up area, but it has three or four stops at the bottom end of Lords Wood which are in Kent rather than Medway. The Royston town service 16 has one stop in Cambridgeshire, because the big Tesco is in Cambridgeshire by a few yards. It's long gone, but back in the 80s one of the Luton town services used to continue a few hundred yards into Hertfordshire to turn at Cockernhoe, because at the time there was nowhere else convenient to turn. (A roundabout which didn't exist back then now makes it much easier.)

 

[DavidGrain]

I am not an expert on London buses but I was surprised a few years ago when for the first time I got a train to Epsom, Surrey. On walking out of the station I was surprised to see red London buses on the 406 route. The surprise to me was that I knew that the 400 series of route numbers belonged originally to the LT Green buses and later London Country which operated in the National Bus green livery.

I have since learned that although Epsom is in Surrey the 406 is a TfL contracted route.

 

[A Challenge]

63 and 63X from Guildford (Surrey) to Horsham (West Sussex)
KITE from Guidlford (Surrey) to Aldershot (Hampshire)
There are quite a few busses from Camberley Surrey that cross into Hampshire or Berkshire, like ones to Blackwater, Wokingham, Bracknell, Aldershot and Farnborough

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Given it's the largest county AND has a unitary in the middle of it, you'll be here all week with North Yorkshire!

• X26/X27/26a and the 29 and the X34 that all go from Richmond to Darlington (Darlington unitary) via three main "corridors"
• RR1 and 79 go Richmond to Barnard Castle (Durham) via markedly different routes
• 72 Northallerton to Darlington (Darlington U)
• X80 Northallerton to Middlesbrough (Middlesbrough U)
• 28a Stokesley to Middlesbrough (Middlesbrough U)
• 81 Stokesley to Marske (Redcar U)
• M2/M3 Darlington (Darlington U) to North York Moors National Park
• M1/M4 Saltburn (Redcar U) to North York Moors National Park
• X4 Whitby to Loftus (Redcar U) and Middlesbrough
• X93 Scarborough and Whitby to Middlesbrough (Middlesbrough U)
• S3 Hawes to Sedbergh (Cumbria)
• 855 Gayle to Garsdale (Cumbria)

That's just the ones I remember in the north of North Yorkshire. There's loads around Selby into West Yorkshire and York unitary, plus plenty of others from North Yorkshire to West Yorkshire from Harrogate and Knaresborough to Wetherby, Leeds and Otley. Then you have all the ones into York unitary from places like Tad, Malton, Thirsk, Pocklington, or into East Yorkshire from Scarborough and Filey into Brid, and then Skipton into Lancashire or into West Yorkshire.

I bet that there's at least 50 routes from North Yorkshire if not more - there's 15 main routes (plus the odd variation) listed above.

 

[MedwayValiant]

There are quite a few busses from Camberley Surrey that cross into Hampshire or Berkshire, like ones to Blackwater, Wokingham, Bracknell, Aldershot and Farnborough

A full journey on the Stagecoach 18 from Aldershot to Haslemere crosses the Hants/Surrey border three times as it makes its way from Aldershot (Hampshire) via Farnham (Surrey) and Bordon (Hampshire) to Haslemere (Surrey).


I've tried to make a list of all the services that leave Kent (ignoring services which cross between Kent and Medway). I've ignored a couple of very infrequent services, but I still have:

2 (Stagecoach) - Tenterden to Hastings (East Sussex)
28, 29 (Brighton and Hove) - Tunbridge Wells to Brighton (Brighton and Hove)
96, 428, 492 (TfL) - Dartford to Bexleyheath (London) and beyond
100, 101 (Stagecoach) - Lydd to Hastings (East Sussex) via Rye
228, 229 (Compass) - Tunbridge Wells to Crowborough (East Sussex)
231, 233 (Metrobus) - Edenbridge to Lingfield (Surrey)
233 (TfL) - Swanley to Eltham (London)
236 (Southdown) - East Grinstead (West Sussex) to Oxted (Surrey) via Edenbridge
246 (TfL) - Westerham to Bromley (London)
251, 252 (Stagecoach) - Tunbridge Wells to Heathfield (East Sussex)
254 (Stagecoach) - Tunbridge Wells to Hawkhurst via Wadhurst (East Sussex)
256 (Autocar) - Tunbridge Wells to Wadhurst (East Sussex) via Frant (East Sussex) and Lamberhurst, crosses the border three times
291 (Metrobus) - Tunbridge Wells to Crawley (West Sussex)
304, 305 (Stagecoach) - Hawkhurst to Hastings (East Sussex) via Robertsbridge
312 (Stagecoach) - Tenterden to Rye (East Sussex)
349 (Stagecoach) - Hawkhurst to Hastings (East Sussex) via Bodiam
431 (Go-Coach) - Sevenoaks to Orpington (London)
477 (Arriva) - Swanley to Orpington (London)
594, 595 (Southdown) - Westerham to Oxted (Surrey)
B12 (TfL) - Joydens Wood to Bexleyheath (London)
R5, R10 (TfL) - Knockholt Pound to Orpington (London)
X80 (Ensign) - Bluewater to Lakeside (Thurrock)

 

[317 forever]

We've a winner for the most frequent service between two countries

An even more frequent example is buses leaving Greater London for Waltham Cross. Greater London is like a country within a country.

 

[317 forever]

Romford is another outer London area that has lost a lot of cross-border services over the past few decades.

Now, it just has the 370 to Thurrock (itself curtailed from Tilbury after it became part of the TfL network), the 375 into Epping Forest (itself the tiny remnant of far more extensive services that used to run along the same roads before continuing to either Abridge, Epping, Harlow or Ongar), and the 498 (like the 375, a recent TfL replacement for part of a much longer former NBC, in this case Eastern National service that used to continue beyond Brentwood to Chelmsford, Canvey,or even Southend). And I suppose the limited service 347 just sneaks over the border into Thurrock.

What has been lost since 1986, apart from the above (with the services to Harlow, Chelmsford, Basildon, Canvey and Southend being fairly substantial losses) also includes
... the service via the back roads (via Warley) to Brentwood that variously was part of the 247 and the 347, or following its diversion to Bulphan (which always seemed an unlikely destination to be linked with Romford) the 265.
...another service to Brentwood via an even more convoluted route via Upminster, West Horndon and Herongate, that was latterly the Eastern National 226
...another service to Basildon also via Upminster and West Horndon, the 403, which had been operated by both Eastern National and London Country at various times
...the "express" service to Southend (the 400 or the 2) via the A127 more or less direct (which used to run all the way from Wood Green or possibly even Kings Cross)
...the Thames Weald "Tunnel Express" minibus service (quite an eccentricity, in numerous regards) that went to Sevenoaks and various other places - essentially aimed at people coming to Romford Market from North Kent.

I think there were numerous reasons for these withdrawals, some commercial (it's hard to imagine the 226 or 403 having been viable, while clearly other retail destinations like Lakeside or Bluewater) supplanted Romford as a bigger retail destination, some to do with increasing car usage, but others were to do with franchising requirements and the unwillingness of local authorities (be it TfL or Essex County Council or Thurrock) to fund services that went far outside their areas. But the overall effect has been indeed to create a "Berlin wall" of bus services between Greater London and some of its surrounding counties and to discourage longer-distance journeys being made by bus. In some cases (eg Romford to Harlow, which used to attract an hourly service, seven days a week), some journeys are effectively impossible to make by bus.

A significant change at Romford is that, whereas in 1983 all routes connecting Romford with towns or villages outside Greater London were run by National Bus companies Eastern National or London Country, now all buses at Romford are red TfL or commercial.

 

[317 forever]

Possibly interesting, the NEx West Midlands 49 Solihull - Northfield crosses the boundary into Worcestershire (and out again) in one direction only (on journeys towards Northfield). Now, there must be fewer of these!

Edit underlined.

Not quite the same, but London route 275 dips very briefly outside Greater London between Woodford and Barkingside.

 

[Smethwickian]

One stop on the X1 (the new number for the 900) is outside of the West Midlands, on Maxstoke Lane (Old Hall Farm), towards Coventry only. This is due to the layout of the junction for Meriden off the A45, which enters Meriden via Shepherds Lane/Maxstoke Lane, but leaves via Birmingham Road.

Yes, but in fact, the stop outside Packington Hall Gates on the A45 in both directions is also in Warwickshire, the boundary going south around Stonebridge golf course at this point.

 

[Typhoon]

100, 101 (Stagecoach) - Lydd to Hastings (East Sussex) via Rye

100/ 101 were cut back to operate Rye to Hastings in June but you can have 102 Dover - Rye via Lydd.
You could also have 234 - Edenbridge to Tunbridge Wells which sneaks into East Sussex at Holtye.

 

[Typhoon]

Yes, but in fact, the stop outside Packington Hall Gates on the A45 in both directions is also in Warwickshire, the boundary going south around Stonebridge golf course at this point.

Thank you for that. I spent too long on Streetview trying to find a 'You are now entering Warwickshire' sign.

 

[DunsBus]

Two more Borders Buses routes to add to the list:

60 Berwick - Duns - Galashiels (Northumberland/Scottish Borders, crosses the border at Foulden)
67 Berwick - Coldstream - Kelso - Galashiels (Northumberland/Scottish Borders, crosses the border at Coldstream Bridge)

 

[adrock1976]

One stop on the X1 (the new number for the 900) is outside of the West Midlands, on Maxstoke Lane (Old Hall Farm), towards Coventry only. This is due to the layout of the junction for Meriden off the A45, which enters Meriden via Shepherds Lane/Maxstoke Lane, but leaves via Birmingham Road.

Yes, but in fact, the stop outside Packington Hall Gates on the A45 in both directions is also in Warwickshire, the boundary going south around Stonebridge golf course at this point.

I recall that the former 900 after Stonebridge took a right turn onto the old Birmingham Road to head into Meriden Green.

Has the gap in the carriageway been filled in, hence the reason for running via Shepherds Lane/Maxstoke Lane?

 

[Smethwickian]

I recall that the former 900 after Stonebridge took a right turn onto the old Birmingham Road to head into Meriden Green.

Has the gap in the carriageway been filled in, hence the reason for running via Shepherds Lane/Maxstoke Lane?

Yes, also the gap at the B4104/A45 junction at the ''other end" of the Meriden section, hence the X1 serving Millisons Wood only from Coventry.

 

[Ron Hale]

Buses through Bawtry all run between Doncaster, South Yorkshire and Retford \ Worksop, Nottinghamshire.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

The 84 was a London Country route which then become commercial.

Actually, the 84 was originally a Central area route Golders Green-Potters Bar- St Albans, introduced as an Underground feeder route {along with other routes in the 80- 89 series. Others that can still be traced include 81 Hounslow- Slough and 85 Putney Bridge- Kingston.

The 84 was for many years subsidised by Hertfordshire County Council. In the mid 80's HCC transferred subsidy to London Country as LC required less subsidy to operate the route. Eventually, Metroline won the contract back through competitive tendering and has since turned the route into a commercial operation.

 

[Deerfold]

Actually, the 84 was originally a Central area route Golders Green-Potters Bar- St Albans, introduced as an Underground feeder route {along with other routes in the 80- 89 series. Others that can still be traced include 81 Hounslow- Slough and 85 Putney Bridge- Kingston.

Going further back, yes. I was just tracing its history back to 1986 and showing it was never a TfL route.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Buses through Bawtry all run between Doncaster, South Yorkshire and Retford \ Worksop, Nottinghamshire.

And Gainsborough, Lincolnshire via Nottinghamshire Villages.
All Stagecoach routes - viz 21,25,29,98,99 (also route 27 runs Nottinghamshire(Misson)-South Yorkshire(Bawtry)-Nottinghamshire(Retford)