TRFB to TSHD Conversion

[route:oxford]

A post in another forum* has details of the tender for the refreshment of class 180 stock by FGW. Within the same tender document...

b. HST Mk3 TRFB conversion to HST TSHD vehicle refresh - up to 17 vehicles,

c. TSO loco hauled Mk3 Conversion to HST TSHD vehicle refresh,

d. HST TGS Mk3 conversion to HST TSHD vehicle refresh - up to 3 vehicles.

Has much been done in the past to convert Buffet coaches to "ordinary" coaches?



*Acknowledgement to anthony263

 

[IanXC]

Would I be right in thinking this would be FGW moving to a mixed fleet of 7 and 8 cars per set?

 

[TEW]

It will actually mean FGW will be moving back to fleet of all 8-coach sets. Currently there are 2+8 sets with full buffets, the majority and 2+7 sets with micro-buffets. These extra carriages will mean that the 2+7 will be increased to 2+8, containing 6 standard class vehicles compared to 5 on the current 2+8, full buffet sets.

 

[IanXC]

It will actually mean FGW will be moving back to fleet of all 8-coach sets. Currently there are 2+8 sets with full buffets, the majority and 2+7 sets with micro-buffets. These extra carriages will mean that the 2+7 will be increased to 2+8, containing 6 standard class vehicles compared to 5 on the current 2+8, full buffet sets.

Thanks, I knew there was something dodgy with the numbers I'd put. Even edited it and didnt make it right!

 

[ChrisCooper]

Has much been done in the past to convert Buffet coaches to "ordinary" coaches?

I don't think any conversions have been done that way, but some of the hauled RFBs were converted from HST TFOs.

Converting buffets makes a lot of sence as there are loads sitting around, what with ones removed from HSTs, and most of the former VWC hauled ones (both from Mk3 and Mk2 sets) also out of use (most of the NXEA Mk3 buffets are former Anglia ones from the Mk2 sets).

 

[w1bbl3]

c. TSO loco hauled Mk3 Conversion to HST TSHD vehicle refresh,
HST TGS Mk3 conversion to HST TSHD vehicle refresh - up to 3 vehicles.

Assuming the TRFB conversion allows all the 7 coach sets to reform as 8 coaches I wonder what Mk3 LHCS TSO to HST TSHD conversion and TGS to TSHD is for.
I note no quantity has been put beside the number of LHCS coaches for conversion but three TGS's are to be converted, could FGW be planning some 9 coach services?

 

[route:oxford]

2+7 improving to 2+8 would be very welcome on peak services in and out of Paddington.

Are coaches that are due for conversion owned outright by First Group, or are they on lease?

Also... Although it is not mentioned in the tender, if these 20 or so coaches were fitted with similar power-doors as planned by Chiltern (using an interface with the existing HST door-interlock system), would that help make their HSTs more compatible with the DDA?

 

[theblackwatch]

Has much been done in the past to convert Buffet coaches to "ordinary" coaches?

Two (well, Restaurant cars actually!) have been converted before - 40505/11 are now TF vehicles 41179/80.

 

[Rhydgaled]

So are they somehow changing the window layout on TGS and buffet/resturant cars?

I'm guessing what they really mean is they are:

• Converting RFB coaches to High-Density standard class micro-buffets and
• Converting TGS coaches to High-Density TGS

I am guessing right? What are the micro-buffets like anyway, and what is the formation of their HighDensity sets? I don't think I've ever been on, or seen, a HighDensity set.

 

[TEW]

No, they'll all be converted to normal standard class vehicles. FGW already have enough micro-buffets. The micro-buffets are basically just the serving area of the full buffet, no kitchen, at the end of a standard class coach. The high density sets are most of the FGW fleet, either formed 2+7 with 4 standard carriages, one micro-buffet and 2 first class carriages or 2+8 with 5 standard carriages, a buffet first and 2 first class carriages. Low density sets are the same as the 2+8 high density sets. The difference is in the seating arrangement, high density is two tables per coach, low density is 4 per coach.

 

[Rhydgaled]

No, they'll all be converted to normal standard class vehicles. FGW already have enough micro-buffets. The micro-buffets are basically just the serving area of the full buffet, no kitchen, at the end of a standard class coach. The high density sets are most of the FGW fleet, either formed 2+7 with 4 standard carriages, one micro-buffet and 2 first class carriages or 2+8 with 5 standard carriages, a buffet first and 2 first class carriages. Low density sets are the same as the 2+8 high density sets. The difference is in the seating arrangement, high density is two tables per coach, low density is 4 per coach.

Ok, do they have a way of changing the windows then? Or will some passengers have very narrow slits to look out of?

 

[sprinterguy]

Ok, do they have a way of changing the windows then? Or will some passengers have very narrow slits to look out of?

Yes, as theblackwatch says, two restaurant cars have already been converted to FOs, and a few TGS vehicles have also been converted to TSOs, so it is possible to change the window layout: All the mark 3 seated carriages use, as far as I'm aware, the same body structure, it is only the sleeper carriages that are different.

 

[DarloRich]

may i ask a stupid question - why can you not convert a, say, sleeper carriage into a "normal carriage? I assume you cant just rip the guts out and replace with new! IS the running gear different? Is there a structural difference? (beyond the windows!)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The framework around the windows is different.

One was converted once and was exhibited at Railtex about 10 years ago, but it had to be moved by road because it was too weak to move by rail...