Transport for Wales rolling stock

[nwales58]

Would have meant 3h delay getting home from Brussels had it happened to me last week, but that's rare.

Whats more of the problem for me is the loss of the late train on the coast in winter but thats another thread.

If 1440 was the last train from Paddington to south Wales from December, then people might understand the problem.

Of concern now is that it would only take one more incident or problem to the 158 fleet this winter for regular bus replacement and worse than horrid journey times to become the norm.

 

[Belperpete]

The XX33 from Euston changing at Stafford and Wolves do, so does the 17:40 so it's a minor inconvience really and I use the 17:40. Whats more of the problem for me is the loss of the late train on the coast in winter but thats another thread.

Catching the xx33 and travelling via Stafford and Wolvs would need an Any Permitted Route ticket, which is significantly more expensive than the Via Birmingham ticket I normally buy. The connections are also quite tight, which could leave you stranded for two or even three hours if travelling up the Coast - and no DR compensation if you have already claimed full compo for the outward journey! Neither Stafford nor Wolvs are particularly inviting places to get marooned in.

 

[Bikeman78]

Mismanagement of the transfer from 175s on the Marches/North Wales Coast means that the 150s are getting to their C6s quicker than they would have done. Hence there are 150s going off lease and creating more shortages. (Always get criticised for raising this, but the ORR did intervene with regards to TfW and 175 maintenance)

C6 exams are based on dates not mileage. It makes no difference if a 150 does a thousand miles a year or one hundred thousand. The C6 will be the same. C4s are mileage based but I think they are still being done.

 

[1D54]

Has anyone got any idea if the Birmingham International - Wolverhampton services will resume on Saturday for TfW or are they still short on 158s?
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== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2024 ==

From Saturday 23 November, TfW Services between Shrewsbury, and Birmingham International via Wolverhampton will resume.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Has anyone got any idea if the Birmingham International - Wolverhampton services will resume on Saturday for TfW or are they still short on 158s?
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== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2024 ==

From Saturday 23 November, TfW Services between Shrewsbury, and Birmingham International via Wolverhampton will resume.

Did you answer your own question or is that just a quote you’ve seen somewhere ?

Just in case, all TFW services are intended to go to Birmingham International again from Saturday.

 

[1D54]

Did you answer your own question or is that just a quote you’ve seen somewhere ?

Just in case, all TFW services are intended to go to Birmingham International again from Saturday.

It automatically merged into my previous post. Copied off TfW site.

 

[Belperpete]

Did you answer your own question or is that just a quote you’ve seen somewhere ?

Just in case, all TFW services are intended to go to Birmingham International again from Saturday.

According to Journey Check, there is one late service to International that is terminating short at Shrewsbury, and it's return working likewise starting short there.

 

[Shrop]

Catching the xx33 and travelling via Stafford and Wolvs would need an Any Permitted Route ticket, which is significantly more expensive than the Via Birmingham ticket I normally buy. The connections are also quite tight, which could leave you stranded for two or even three hours if travelling up the Coast - and no DR compensation if you have already claimed full compo for the outward journey! Neither Stafford nor Wolvs are particularly inviting places to get marooned in.

If you're travelling from London as far as Shrewsbury, or beyond towards Aberystwyth/Barmouth, then travelling via Crewe is usually quicker. Making any "connections" there is a complete lottery, but nevertheless often very possible, however the rail companies really don't help.
In addition to the normal wholesale ignoring of passengers who might be trying to get from a slightly late arrival on to a Shrewsbury bound train at Crewe, the fares on this route are likely to be higher too, unless you've managed to secure a good "Advance" deal. So this translates to pushing passengers via Birmingham despite this route being tedious and often overcrowded.
I've previously advocated that a through service running from Crewe to Aberystwyth/Barmouth would be useful, and it would have the further advantage of not having to reverse at Shrewsbury, unlike the trains from Birmingham do. Okay, there won't always be shortages of rolling stock, but this is just the latest issue and a pointer towards how useful a direct Crewe - Cambrian Coast service could be. It should be accompanied by a fare structure to allow passengers to travel this route at no more than the cost via Birmingham too. Any further thoughts on this ...?

 

[Harpo]

So this translates to pushing passengers via Birmingham despite this route being tedious and often overcrowded.

TfW would love us all to believe that dribbling around Shrewsbury and Wrexham is the fastest route from the West Mids to Chester.

 

[stevieinselby]

Its a perennial double-edged sword. If there were true spare resources, the media would howl about the railway being profligate and every MP would be demanding it be used to strengthen whatever train causes most grief in their village.

Unlikely that anyone would be aware that there were "spare" resources. It's pretty difficult to calculate the PVR of any one network, and there will always be a need for some surplus stock, so who can say what level of surplus is "spare"?

A genuine question. Would a national operator combine one of the WMT trains with the TfW rather than maintaining 3 trains per hour between Birmingham and Shrewsbury?

The days of spare carriages that could be added to the end of trains sound good, but those trains could not have any of the modern features that rely on semi-fixed formations. The only option is additional gangwayed units that can be added/removed as needed. Gangways is what TfW and WMT have gone for with the 197/196s and what is now the norm in the commuter lands around London.

I could certainly imagine a national operator keeping 1tph fast from Birmingham to Shrewsbury and on to Wales alongside 2tph slow or semi-fast.
Extra units that can be added at busy times (ideally gangwayed, but it isn't essential, as many operators do run non-gangwayed units in multiple), but the two biggest barriers are that spare units are more expensive than spare carriages and that you need somewhere for those units to wait between the peak periods.

Theres little point comparing BR with today. BR had universal go-anywhere resources. Trains that could serve commuters, InterCity, holidaymakers, trippers, etc and in the same diagram. Privatisation killed that a long while ago.

Universal go-anywhere trains that can serve commuters, intercity and day-trippers sounds like trains that are jack-of-all-trades and not actually optimised for any of them. The reason that we have different spec stock for different types of services is that different types of services have different requirements.

Indeed. Even in Labour's plan to bring the TOCs back under public ownership as part of GBR there was no mention of doing so and it must be assumed that stock will still be owned by and leased from the ROSCOs, at least initially until a better system can be decided upon.

The prospect of buying back any existing stock from the Roscos is for the birds. The capital cost would be immense and it would be hard to determine a fair valuation that wasn't subject to extensive and expensive legal challenges (ironic given that the Roscos bought the stock from BR at an absolute knock-down bargain price in the first place). What is a more realistic possibility, although still not very likely in the short term, is for new trains to be publicly owned, as Merseytravel are doing with the 777s.

 

[Shrop]

I could certainly imagine a national operator keeping 1tph fast from Birmingham to Shrewsbury and on to Wales alongside 2tph slow or semi-fast.

I must take issue with your suggestion above, of "keeping 1tph fast from Birmingham to Shrewsbury". On those trains that stop least often, Shrewsbury is the FIFTH stop from Birmingham, in a distance of under 43 miles, ie an average of less than 10 miles per stop. The average speed is around 45mph, and I do not consider that this is "fast" in any context!

Nevertheless, this is apparently the route that the rail companies want passengers for Shrewsbury and the Cambrian coast to use, since it is the least expensive. But, consider that Birmingham NS is always at least the third stop from Euston, which makes Shrewsbury the eighth stop at an absolute minimum, yet you can reach Shrewsbury from Euston stopping just once before Crewe, and non stop after changing there, numerous times each day. For a company which goes by the name of "Transport for WALES", doesn't this suggest that a service which runs direct from Crewe to the Cambrian Coast deserves more thought?

 

[Meerkat]

I've previously advocated that a through service running from Crewe to Aberystwyth/Barmouth would be useful, and it would have the further advantage of not having to reverse at Shrewsbury, unlike the trains from Birmingham do.

If and when they make the Aberystwyth trains hourly will alternate ones just terminate in Shrewsbury? Could they be sent to Crewe so the Aberystwyth service alternates between Birmingham and Crewe?

 

[Wyrleybart]

If and when they make the Aberystwyth trains hourly will alternate ones just terminate in Shrewsbury? Could they be sent to Crewe so the Aberystwyth service alternates between Birmingham and Crewe?

I thought the intention / aspiration was an hourly service from Aberystwyth to Birmingham International for TfW notwithstanding that there is a half hourly service by WMR from Shrewsbury to Birmingham New St which would be a connection

 

[Lurcheroo]

The service will only be hourly during the summer and the additional services will start and terminate at Shrewsbury.
It would be good if they went somewhere else, even if it was Birmingham, but I don’t see it happening at the moment.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Theres little point comparing BR with today. BR had universal go-anywhere resources. Trains that could serve commuters, InterCity, holidaymakers, trippers, etc and in the same diagram. Privatisation killed that a long while ago.

The last pre-privatisation iteration of BR in 1992-94 (full sectorisation, regions abolished) was well down the road of dedicated fleets and train crews in each sector.
Go-anywhere was already out of the window.

 

[Carlisle]

The last pre-privatisation iteration of BR in 1992-94 (full sectorisation, regions abolished) was well down the road of dedicated fleets and train crews in each sector.
Go-anywhere was already out of the window.

Indeed, establishment of the 3 regional freight companies in 94 was about the last step in dedicated fleets & crews nationally.

 

[Shrop]

I thought the intention / aspiration was an hourly service from Aberystwyth to Birmingham International for TfW notwithstanding that there is a half hourly service by WMR from Shrewsbury to Birmingham New St which would be a connection

If and when they make the Aberystwyth trains hourly will alternate ones just terminate in Shrewsbury? Could they be sent to Crewe so the Aberystwyth service alternates between Birmingham and Crewe?

If there's one thing that the Birmingham to Aberystwyth services are very experienced at, it's spitting trains along the route. So why not run 4 coaches from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury, with 2 continuing to Birmingham and 2 to Crewe? The 2 running to Birmingham could be coupled with 2 more which originate in Shrewsbury in order to provide adequate capacity, these would be returning from an earlier arrival from Birmingham.

 

[Cambrian359]

If there's one thing that the Birmingham to Aberystwyth services are very experienced at, it's spitting trains along the route. So why not run 4 coaches from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury, with 2 continuing to Birmingham and 2 to Crewe? The 2 running to Birmingham could be coupled with 2 more which originate in Shrewsbury in order to provide adequate capacity, these would be returning from an earlier arrival from Birmingham.

Wouldn’t that limit them to using platforms 4 and 7 at Shrewsbury and require some shunting around if the 2 starting from Shrewsbury arrived before the 4 from machynlleth? Sounds a bit hairy operationally.

 

[Steve B]

If there's one thing that the Birmingham to Aberystwyth services are very experienced at, it's spitting trains along the route. So why not run 4 coaches from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury, with 2 continuing to Birmingham and 2 to Crewe? The 2 running to Birmingham could be coupled with 2 more which originate in Shrewsbury in order to provide adequate capacity, these would be returning from an earlier arrival from Birmingham.

On the occasions that I've travelled from Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton or Birmingham on TFW 4 coach trains they have been reasonably full - indeed when there are particular events on at the NEC I've been on trains where they've had to turn passengers away at Wellingon and Telford because you simply couldn't get anyone else through the doors.

 

[craigybagel]

Wouldn’t that limit them to using platforms 4 and 7 at Shrewsbury and require some shunting around if the 2 starting from Shrewsbury arrived before the 4 from machynlleth? Sounds a bit hairy operationally.

Worse than that - just 4. There's no signaled access to 7 from the south, and you can't get to Crewe from 3.

 

[MCR247]

If there's one thing that the Birmingham to Aberystwyth services are very experienced at, it's spitting trains along the route. So why not run 4 coaches from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury, with 2 continuing to Birmingham and 2 to Crewe? The 2 running to Birmingham could be coupled with 2 more which originate in Shrewsbury in order to provide adequate capacity, these would be returning from an earlier arrival from Birmingham.

But why? This adds a lot of complexity and I’m not seeing what problem it solves?

 

[Shrop]

But why? This adds a lot of complexity and I’m not seeing what problem it solves?

My earlier comment about changing train formations at Shrewsbury was only in response to a previous post. The main objective was to provide a through service from the Cambrian Coast to Crewe, for reasons further upthread. (Post #68). It doesn't necessarily need to change formation at Shrewsbury if it's logistically too difficult.