Train Setting Back on the WCML- Raib report.

[185]

No actual mention of whether the Emergency Broadcast woke him up.

Have to say it's one hell of a uphill bank at the site of the incident.

DB - Drifting Backwards Schenker?

 

[driver9000]

No actual mention of whether the Emergency Broadcast woke him up.

Points 13-15 (pages 12 & 13) cover that. He stopped the train himself when he realised he was moving away from a green aspect. The NRN broadcast interrupted his call to Carlisle PSB after the train came to a stand.

 

[185]

Points 13-15 (pages 12 & 13) cover that. He stopped the train himself when he realised he was moving away from a green aspect. The NRN broadcast interrupted his call to Carlisle PSB after the train came to a stand.

Ah that's where it was buried. I'm just trying to picture what would be running through someones head if they opened their eyes and realised they were hurtling in reverse at 60mph hock:

 

[Jonny]

Would it not be possible to set up TPWS loops to trigger if a train goes the opposite way to its signaled direction on steep hills?

 

[pablo]

OT. That's a non-sequitur.
Aberations do not gainsay the basic premise. Read report S20 on. I know it's heavy weather. Figure 10 shows graphically what is wrong. The red should be leaning the other way. Looks like an endemic problem to me.
BTW I used to have a CPL.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Sadly you are wrong on this point.

There are increasing concerns about flight deck fatigue and there have been a number of reported instances where the whole flight deck crew has fallen asleep on long haul for short periods of time.

A case recently occurred in the US when an internal flight flew on beyond the destination when the crew fell alseep. Fighters were scrambled and reported they could not rouse the crew. The crew eventually came round and the iunitial story was that they were deeply involved in a debate over Company Procedures !

The requirement to make the cockpit inaccessible prevented the cabin crew from being able to take any action, because there was no way they could gain access.

There is considerable concern in the US of regional flight crew's fatigue. Colgan Air Flight 3407 in 2009 is the most recent I can find, which resulted in the FAA issuing an improvement notice for improvements in the operation of Regional carriers. The crash of a Corporate Airlines flight in 2004 in Missouri also had pilot fatigue implicated in it. The crash of the Delta Connections plane which over-ran runway in 2007 found that the pilot had only slept for 1 of the previous 32 hours. Again, in 2007 a Canadair flight overran a runway the NTSB again found that fatigue caused the poor decision making.

 

[jopsuk]

No actual mention of whether the Emergency Broadcast woke him up.

Have to say it's one hell of a uphill bank at the site of the incident.

DB - Drifting Backwards Schenker?

I was going to sy "Drifing Backwards Slowly" but he hit 50mph- so perhaps "Drifting Backwards Speedily" is more appropriate.

 

[es373]

Just out of curiosity. If he broke the line speed travelling backwards, would Over Speed bosh the brakes on?

 

[Trog]

There is considerable concern in the US of regional flight crew's fatigue. Colgan Air Flight 3407 in 2009 is the most recent I can find, which resulted in the FAA issuing an improvement notice for improvements in the operation of Regional carriers. The crash of a Corporate Airlines flight in 2004 in Missouri also had pilot fatigue implicated in it. The crash of the Delta Connections plane which over-ran runway in 2007 found that the pilot had only slept for 1 of the previous 32 hours. Again, in 2007 a Canadair flight overran a runway the NTSB again found that fatigue caused the poor decision making.

I was once told by an ex-member of the US forces that he had once seen the crew of a USAF transport plane set an alarm clock to ensure they were awake at the other end of a transatlantic crossing. He said they were sensitive about it at the time as a few weeks before a plane flying east to west over the USA, had carried on out over the Pacific until one of the crew woke up.

 

[boing_uk]

I would have thought the picture at the top of the page would give that away. However I was under the impression that it was also a discussion forum and sometimes discussions drift from the general theme of the site on to related topics. In this case, aviation fatigue - it is still relevent to the topic in hand. The world does not always revolve around trains, clag, thrash and standing at the end of a platform waving your hands up and down to get a tone or three from the driver.

 

[jon0844]

Is this a rail or aviation forum people?

Rail, I think (otherwise a lot more of my posts have been off topic than I previously thought!), but there are quite a few similarities to driving a train as a plane - not least the responsibilities and considerations for safety and dealing with incidents.

 

[notadriver]

Just out of curiosity. If he broke the line speed travelling backwards, would Over Speed bosh the brakes on?

Nothing to stop trains exceeding line speed except TASS, ATP, ERTMS and TVM on lines and trains equipped to use it.

 

[DavidBusDriver]

Plus the TPWS loops are designed to operate in the right direction by the very nature, so they are totally ineffective if they are driven over in the reverse direction.

Do agree that there are a lot of parallel's between Railway and Aviation (being an aviation enthusiast myself) and spatial awareness is something very easy to lose with no frame of reference, notably being a causal factor in a lot of helicopter accidents in white-out conditions on snow/sand - where the down-draught from the rotor kicks up a fine mist of snow/sand and totally destroys any visual reference, and it is amazing how easily the inner ear can be fooled!

Indeed - I hear that the fixed-base iPilot 737NG simulator in Bluewater, which I plan to go to very soon, gives very pronounced feelings of motion despite there being no movement physically - just what you can see on the display infront of you!

 

[es373]

I was taking the **** about tpws/over speed lol

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Indeed - I hear that the fixed-base iPilot 737NG simulator in Bluewater, which I plan to go to very soon, gives very pronounced feelings of motion despite there being no movement physically - just what you can see on the display in
front of you!

It is said that people sat watching the filmed forward vision of a roller coaster on a simulator screen can experiance nausea.