Train operator Questions

[rAishwarya]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for advice on how a train operating company (TOC) typically handles an investigation into manual expense receipts submitted for service disruptions.

The Situation:
I received an email from an investigator stating they are manually reviewing a handful of manual receipts I submitted over the last few months. They mentioned they are contacting the third party to verify them.

The receipts are genuine but I was given by a local taxi driver who used other taxi non genuine receipts. I have a completely clean record and have never been stopped for fare evasion or anything similar before.

My Goal:
I want to resolve this privately. I want to avoid court, avoid a criminal record, and protect my background check. I have the funds available to immediately repay the money paid out to me along with any administrative/investigative costs the TOC asks for.

My Questions:

1. If I reply politely, take responsibility for the discrepancies, and offer to immediately repay the money + costs, what are the realistic chances they will offer an out-of-court administrative settlement rather than prosecuting?
2. Does anyone have experience with how the major operators handle offenses for such fake disruption claims of this value?
3. Should I handle the communication directly myself using a cooperative email, or am I safer hiring a specialist solicitor to negotiate the settlement for me?

Thank you for any advice.

 

[gray1404]

You say that your receipts are genuine. So what is the problem? I think you need to be expressly clear about what you have done wrong.

 

[Haywain]

The receipts are genuine but I was given by a local taxi driver who used other taxi non genuine receipts. I

So they're genuine receipts that aren't actually genuine - perhaps because you filled them in yourself?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 13:03 ==

Thank you for any advice.

If you have submitted fraudulent claims, then you would probably be best advised to co-operate. The train company will be looking to recover the amount they have paid out plus an amount to cover the expenses that they have incurred in investigating this.

 

[6Gman]

The receipts are genuine but I was given by a local taxi driver who used other taxi non genuine receipts.

1. Does anyone have experience with how the major operators handle offenses for such fake disruption claims of this value?

I think it's going to be difficult to give further advice without you explaining the meaning of the comments highlighted above.

 

[gray1404]

It sounds to me like you have obtained blank receipts from a taxi driver and then filled these in to make a claim for a journey you have not actually made.

This makes the entire thing illegitimate and the receipts not genuine. I say this to dispel any idea that just because they've been obtained from a taxi driver it makes them valid.

In order for them to be valid they would need to be filled in by a person authorised to fill them in and for a journey that was genuinely and legitimately made and paid for.

So in essence you have been submitting false receipts for a taxi journey that you did not make?

 

[Swedenorer]

Be clear by referring to third parties they could investigate the Driver who is supposed to have issued the receipts. If he did not issue them he could be in trouble along with you.

1. Who wrote the receipts?

2. Is he a hackney driver?

 

[skyhigh]

I don't think we've ever seen a case like this before. It would probably be helpful to see the email you've been sent. What kind of sums have you claimed incorrectly?

If you've been submitting fraudulent receipts you're lucky they haven't just passed this onto the police to deal with.

 

[cf111]

If you have been submitting forged taxi receipts to a TOC for ficticious journeys then I think an out of court settlement is unlikely because a prosecution for such behaviour is likely to pass the public interest test. It goes beyond "simple" fare evasion as you gained financially from such behaviour, as opposed to simply saving money by not buying a ticket.

In short, I think the prosecutor will feel that it serves the public interest to put you before a court instead of dealing with the matter in-house. This is an unusual situation, I would strongly suggest speaking to a solicitor and being candid with them about exactly what you have done so they can advise you appropriately. I agree with @skyhigh, I'm surprised the police aren't involved.

 

[furlong]

In a situation like this I'd suggest you offer them a quick settlement (leaning towards a generous interpretation of their perceived loss) without admitting any liability to encourage them to lose any incentive to investigate it further.

You might seek legal assistance to get the wording of that right, avoiding the pitfalls.

If they investigate further, indeed they might well decide it lies beyond their competence (not really a railway offence) and ought to be handled by the police as a routine case of fraud.

The amount of money involved may influence what happens - how much very approximately? People can end up in jail for this sort of thing.

Take professional advice before replying.

 

[WesternLancer]

Certainly an unusual one on here.

Though if it’s a taxi driver giving blank receipts to the customer I’ve certainly experienced that in the past so it must be or once was presumably fairly common

To be clear it’s an occasion when I’ve taken a taxi for a work trip, asked for a receipt in order to claim the expense and the drive has just given it to me and basically said ‘fill in what you like’

Not experienced this in recent years but I hardly ever use taxis anymore.

 

[gray1404]

Yes I've experienced being given a blank receipt as well. However it was for a journey legitimately undertaken and I filled it out with all of the correct details. Date, time, start location, finish location and actual amount paid. That is the difference.

 

[rAishwarya]

Its for a legitimate journey and I was given blank receipt. I always use the same person but never asked much more details from him where works etc. Is it better to admit and admitting will there a chance that the investigator can press ahead to take me to police. The value is less than 1k for i was paid only approx. £200

 

[greatkingrat]

I think this is another case where the TOC would struggle to prove anything unless the OP incriminates themself. There is no incentive for the cab company to waste their time searching through records to do the TOC's job for them.

 

[rAishwarya]

So is there a possibility for Police to get involved for this scale and how should the response be to the TOC. Just cooperate or ask to settle out before taking further, worried if I ask to settle then may they will push it forward and waste my time to find the person etc. I have a new born and its difficulyt to manage things

 

[AlterEgo]

So, to summarise, the taxi receipts

- were given to you blank by a taxi driver
- you have filled them in
- you did take those taxis
- they are inflated because you claimed more money than was spent

Right?

 

[Sun Chariot]

The value is less than 1k for i was paid only approx. £200

I'm not clear of your sentence:
Do you mean your taxi rides genuinely amounted to c.£200 total?
Or, that you were reimbursed £200 despite you submitting (fraudulent) claims for £1000-ish of fares?

 

[AlterEgo]

I think this is another case where the TOC would struggle to prove anything unless the OP incriminates themself. There is no incentive for the cab company to waste their time searching through records to do the TOC's job for them.

That doesn't mean they won't do it. If I owned a cab company it wouldn't take long at all to find out the value of those fares, particularly if it's a cab company Northern might use during disruption.

 

[mmh]

This is just another fishing exercise by a TOC. I would strongly suspect they have no evidence of anything. It's completely commonplace for taxi receipts to be hand written and with no traceability, and they know that.

What have they actually asked you? I would be minded to ignore it, but I don't think anyone will be able to give you more useful advice without knowing exactly what they've said and what they're accusing you of.

 

[rAishwarya]

I was reimbursed 200 for claims of around 900 as the trains were genuinely cancelled

 

[AlterEgo]

I was reimbursed 200 for claims of around 900 as the trains were genuinely cancelled

You claimed £900?? Over how many journeys?

 

[rAishwarya]

They have not accused me of anything just asked me to get in touch with me to discuss the matter further. They contacted the taxi company but did not tell anything what they got the feedback.

 

[Sun Chariot]

They have not accused me of anything just asked me to get in touch with me to discuss the matter further. They contacted the taxi company but did not tell anything what they got the feedback.

The taxi company will certainly know the correct chargeable fare(s) for the route(s) you took by taxi.
Unless the taxis you took had recordable CCTV, then - as the taxi drivers left you to fill in the amounts on the taxi company's blank receipts - the TOC's stance will be "balance of probability" rather than "beyond reasonable doubt", that it was you specifically who wrote the fraudulent amounts onto your submitted receipts for claims.

 

[mmh]

Just as some general advice for anyone who happens upon this thread in the future, if given a blank receipt it's really unwise to inflate the price if the person/company that's going to reimburse it knows what journey you made. It's trivial to work out what the metered fare would be, and TOCs will have a history of what fares they've been charged for different journeys in the past.

If that's all the letter says, what it really is is an invitation to incriminate yourself in case they find nothing which they could legally use.

 

[gray1404]

Here is a question I need you to answer and it's a simple yes or no:

Have you lied to the train company at any point in your dealings with them?

 

[AlterEgo]

The taxi company will certainly know the correct chargeable fare(s) for the route(s) you took by taxi.
Unless the taxis you took had recordable CCTV, then - as the taxi drivers left you to fill in the amounts on the taxi company's blank receipts - the TOC's stance will be "balance of probability" rather than "beyond reasonable doubt", that it was you specifically who wrote the fraudulent amounts onto your submitted receipts for claims.

If they've claimed £900 for £200 worth of trips it is clear and obvious fraud. Can guarantee all these slips will be in the OP's own handwriting. CCTV is not required to prove a case like this beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Sun Chariot]

If they've claimed £900 for £200 worth of trips it is clear and obvious fraud. Can guarantee all these slips will be in the OP's own handwriting. CCTV is not required to prove a case like this beyond reasonable doubt.

Yep, good point.
I don't know what legal weight the "handwriting comparison test" carries (especially if a person chooses to change their natural writing-style...)

 

[greatkingrat]

The TOC don't know what the OP's handwriting looks like though. I presume all correspondence so far has been electronic.

 

[Sun Chariot]

In summary, you had claimed c.£900 against a total of £200 of legitimate fares for taxis to assist your travel during those instances of train service disruption,
TOC has now contacted you, in writing, seeking your version of events.
The TOC had reimbursed you £200, not your claimed £900.