Tour de France 2022

[Techniquest]

That suggests the final stage in Paris won't be very exciting then, as if it's just effectively going to be a parade for the 112km (I think) to the finish line.

On a related note, Tour de France Femmes starts on Sunday and I'm already looking forward to that

 

[DarloRich]

That suggests the final stage in Paris won't be very exciting then, as if it's just effectively going to be a parade for the 112km (I think) to the finish line.

I thought that is all it ever was these days

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jul 2022 ==

I think it would be good if the last stage was contested.

is the unwritten rule that you may seek to win the final stage but not assume the yellow jersey

 

[Techniquest]

I haven't watched it before, so I wouldn't know. Either way, I'll be watching it.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I've not yet got my head around how they categorise some climbs but then not others. There were some on Saturday that really should have featured, and how they work out what's a C3 climb compared to a C4 one or whatever I don't know. Is it mostly a combination of distance and percentage of gradient kind of thing?

It’s an inexact science. Officially it’s based on perceived difficulty, which is a combination of steepness and length, but with allowances for how tired the riders are likely to be (ie a climb later in a stage, or in a stage nearer the end of the race will be more likely to be classified - or in a higher classification - than a similar climb early in the day and/or early in the tour)

The organisers like to maintain a bit of an air of mystery around it.

 

[Techniquest]

It’s an inexact science. Officially it’s based on perceived difficulty, which is a combination of steepness and length, but with allowances for how tired the riders are likely to be (ie a climb later in a stage, or in a stage nearer the end of the race will be more likely to be classified - or in a higher classification - than a similar climb early in the day and/or early in the tour)

The organisers like to maintain a bit of an air of mystery around it.

Thanks, that does make some sense I guess that would be why the HC and C1 climbs are nearer the end in general.

I finally watched yesterday's stage, plenty of drama in places there!

 

[CC 72100]

I thought that is all it ever was these days

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jul 2022 ==


is the unwritten rule that you may seek to win the final stage but not assume the yellow jersey

Yes, that's correct. Paris is a little bit of a reward for the sprinters for having survived the mountain stages.

In any case the route on the Paris stage is one where significant time gaps are unlikely to be generated; I've been twice (2017 and 2019) and am off there again this weekend, and the last placed rider on the road that day has never been more than a couple of minutes behind the main peloton.

With the stage being so flat, even if the 2nd placed rider in the General Classification (GC) did try to make a break for it, they would be unable to generate such a time gap on such a flat (and short in the grand scheme of things) stage.

 

[Techniquest]

I hope you have a great time! I'll be watching on GCN+

It promises to be a good watch, even if there isn't all that much in the way of action, on Sunday.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I've not yet got my head around how they categorise some climbs but then not others. There were some on Saturday that really should have featured, and how they work out what's a C3 climb compared to a C4 one or whatever I don't know. Is it mostly a combination of distance and percentage of gradient kind of thing?

The legend goes:

Cat 4 = 1920s Citroen could get up in 4th gear
Cat 3 = 1920s Citroen could get up in 3rd gear
Cat 2 = 1920s Citroen could get up in 2nd gear
Cat 1 = 1920s Citroen could get up in 1st gear
Hors Categorie = 1920s Citroen unable to get up hill

 

[davehsug]

I like cycling up hill, but downhill 30 kmh is enough for me. And being out in the sun at 40° all day would be awful. I fear that the riders shall pay with their health later.
..
In 1989 Fignon of France was in yellow but Lemond (US) beat him in the final contre-la-montre/time-trial and won by eight seconds overall. That was too exciting, perhaps that is why the last stage is a promenade now.

I think you should always try to win, I think it would be good if the last stage was contested. One popular trick has been to attack in the feeding zone (make sure you have eaten plenty first).

I don't see what difference it would make? The last stage would just play out like a normal sprint stage and barring accidents/mechanicals the result wouldn't change. As it is, it's the "unnoficial" world sprint championship. There's been little enough for the sprinters in this race as it is. It's hardly their fault that genuine sprint stages are pretty dull until the last few Kms, and the organisers now have 5 hours of TV to fill.
Anyhoo, on to the pyrenees. I can't see any major changes now, although I couldn't see an alternative to Pogacar once he took yellow! It's certainly been the hardest ridden TdF for years. Can Vingergaard hang on? He's certainly shown no weakness so far.

 

[Meole]

There are frequent attacks on the final stage once it reaches central Paris and the laps begin, some riders take to the gutters to avoid the cobbles and try to gain, however the flat course and the interests of the sprinter teams mean that the chances are slim but there is no truce. It is accepted that the ride into Paris is something of a parade as riders act up for the cameras, celebrating reaching the Champs Elysee is understandable and there has normally been a long rail transfer in the morning to get to the start, the distance from the final mountains alternately the Alps or the Pyrenees precludes actually riding across. There is an honour in being first onto the Champs which might be for an acknowledged great about to retire or the clear winner and his team.

 

[Cloud Strife]

In 1989 Fignon of France was in yellow but Lemond (US) beat him in the final contre-la-montre/time-trial and won by eight seconds overall. That was too exciting, perhaps that is why the last stage is a promenade now.

I think you should always try to win, I think it would be good if the last stage was contested.

It's worth pointing out that just because the yellow jersey isn't attacked on that day (although they would be if there was a matter of seconds in it!), there are other jerseys still up for grabs. It's not uncommon for the Green jersey to go down to the final day, for instance in 2005 and 2010. Same goes with the team classification.

The other thing is that it's simply very uncommon for the time gap to be so close on the final stage anyway. In recent years, the 2007 Tour was a good example, as Cadel Evans could have attacked Contador on the final stage. However, Leipheimer (Contador's teammate at Discovery and 8 seconds behind in 3rd place) was faster than Evans, and I suspect that the Lotto team wanted to preserve their second place rather than risking losing everything.

The other aspect is that having the time trial on the penultimate day is also the optimal format. You destroy the riders in the mountains three and two days before, then you let them ride a long transition stage before having the ITT on the penultimate day. We saw how Roglic collapsed in 2020, and the spectacle of the yellow jersey having to chase down a rider in front can be astonishing to watch.

In terms of the mountain classifications, much depends on the place of the climb. There are some climbs that will be categorised as a HC climb regardless of where it falls, but then others might be upgraded if it's at the end of a difficult day.

Speaking of which, I'm always amused by the way that the French translate the names of mountain climbs into French, even when the race is outside of France.

One thing that I'm especially enjoying this year is that both UAE Team Emirates and Jumbo-Visma are really struggling with keeping enough riders in the race. Both of them are down to 6 riders, and Marc Soler (UAE Team Emirates) is now looking in bad shape today. Neither of those teams look capable of controlling the mountains ahead as well!

 

[CC 72100]

The UAE/TJV situation is really interesting. Both teams are battle bruised as you say, and I can't see Soler hanging in there any longer.

I think the stage 20 time trial is here to stay, and 2020 and the drama only strengthened that feeling.

I would like to see a team time trial return, I can't recall the last one - maybe 2018?

I have enjoyed seeing Geraint Thomas hold his own up there and also Froome is hovering around 35th place, which isn't shabby considering what he has come back from. Just hope Froome makes it to Paris.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Speaking of which, I'm always amused by the way that the French translate the names of mountain climbs into French, even when the race is outside of France

Indeed. Cote de Jenkin Road anyone?

 

[Cloud Strife]

Indeed. Cote de Jenkin Road anyone?

I have to say, they really got Stage 2 of the 2014 Tour right. The racing in/around Cote de Jenkin Road was fantastic, and the riders actually had to display their bike riding skills.

I would like to see a team time trial return, I can't recall the last one - maybe 2018?

Likewise, I'd like to see it return, but with a genuine challenge. The 2015 Vuelta a Espana had the race along the beachfront in Marbella, so I'd like to see something similar. The Tour has pretty much gone off TTT's since the days of US Postal dominating them, which is a shame. I've always thought that if they included a very tricky technical 'town' section (requiring excellent bike skills), a flat out section of 20-30km and then a brutal HC climb, you could have a wonderful TTT where it would be a challenge to bring home 5 riders together.

There are certainly places where it could work: Girona, Nice, etc. Or even for fun, why not an TTT that uses most of the Monaco GP track, before heading up into the hills? There's definitely room for the ASO to innovate here, though I think their line of thinking is that team time trials are simply boring.

I have enjoyed seeing Geraint Thomas hold his own up there and also Froome is hovering around 35th place, which isn't shabby considering what he has come back from. Just hope Froome makes it to Paris.

He shouldn't have any problems getting there, he made it up L'Alpe d'Huez in third place!

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Perhaps two teams that have lost half or more of their riders could be allowed to merge. Only problem might be the very long hyphenated team names that would result.

I favor long TTs, like the British 100 miles, races of truth. Of course the Tour is primarily a comm€rcial event so stages have to fit the towns/resorts that pay a lot to get the Grand Boucle to visit.

I went cycling today for an hour, created my own breeze, bearable even at 30°C. Would not fancy cycling hard all day. How do they drink and eat enough? They do not have to worry much about WHAT to eat and drink, that is decided by team nutritionists.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I went cycling today for an hour, created my own breeze, bearable even at 30°C. Would not fancy cycling hard all day. How do they drink and eat enough? They do not have to worry much about WHAT to eat and drink, that is decided by team nutritionists.

Well, fluids are easy enough, but with food: they need to eat a decent breakfast, they eat before arriving at the stage, and then they try and consume 400-600 calories an hour when on the bike. There are also drinks that let them take on 300-400 calories in a bottle, but from what I understand, the hard part is in the last week when they simply can't stomach so many things. The nutrition is really quite complicated, though it's come on a long way since the late 1990s when they were eating lots of pasta.

One figure I've seen suggest that they need to eat three full meals to recover for the next stage, although 'recover' might be badly named! With that, combined with all the snacks on the bike, they generally do get enough in their bodies.

 

[CC 72100]

He shouldn't have any problems getting there, he made it up L'Alpe d'Huez in third place!

Quite - that was excellent to watch. The worst climbs are over so he should make it, but Froome isn't renowned for luck!

Nice to see Hugo Houle get the win today - I think I remember the story about his brother being told last year when he was in a breakaway, but you don't half see what it means to some of these riders to win a stage.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

It's worth pointing out that just because the yellow jersey isn't attacked on that day (although they would be if there was a matter of seconds in it!), there are other jerseys still up for grabs. It's not uncommon for the Green jersey to go down to the final day, for instance in 2005 and 2010. Same goes with the team classification.

The other thing is that it's simply very uncommon for the time gap to be so close on the final stage anyway. In recent years, the 2007 Tour was a good example, as Cadel Evans could have attacked Contador on the final stage. However, Leipheimer (Contador's teammate at Discovery and 8 seconds behind in 3rd place) was faster than Evans, and I suspect that the Lotto team wanted to preserve their second place rather than risking losing everything.

There's some talk that the Tour may not finish in Paris next year because of the Olympics.

Nice has been mentioned as a possible race finish, but a mountain-top finish on Alpe d'Huez or Mont Ventoux would be better...

 

[Ediswan]

There's some talk that the Tour may not finish in Paris next year because of the Olympics.

Nice has been mentioned as a possible race finish, but a mountain-top finish on Alpe d'Huez or Mont Ventoux would be better...

Next year, 2023 ? There is a clash in 2024.

 

[Bald Rick]

There's some talk that the Tour may not finish in Paris next year because of the Olympics.

Nice has been mentioned as a possible race finish, but a mountain-top finish on Alpe d'Huez or Mont Ventoux would be better...

it’s confirmed as Nice. Perfect place for it.

 

[Techniquest]

it’s confirmed as Nice. Perfect place for it.

I may have to use that as an excuse to finally visit Nice!

 

[Bald Rick]

I may have to use that as an excuse to finally visit Nice!

Make sure your bank balance is prepared. Expensive place.

 

[Techniquest]

Make sure your bank balance is prepared. Expensive place.

Yes I remember someone telling me some months back (might have been yourself! Can't be sure now) that to visit Nice requires a mortgage. Monaco, two mortgages!

Not long finished watching today's stage, I was with visiting family for a good few hours today so I was late to the party. What a monster of a route that was, those climbs to Peyragudes were nasty! What a nasty kicker on the final bit to the finish, and a top performance from UAE Emirates! I envied no-one going up those mountains, I'd still be pedalling up them!

 

[Bald Rick]

What a monster of a route that was, those climbs to Peyragudes were nasty! What a nasty kicker on the final bit to the finish, and a top performance from UAE Emirates! I envied no-one going up those mountains, I'd still be pedalling up them!

Peyragudes is simple in the scheme of things, only a Cat 1.

Tomorrow is Hautacam, HC (although only just). Probably the dullest of the climbs in that part of the world. All I can remember about it from when I did it was a massive ice cream back in Argeles after we came back down. Should be a good crowd though.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Individual time-trial today over the traditional British distance of 40 km/25 miles.

There will certainly be some changes in overall standings. Is Pogacar a much better time triallist than Vingegaard?

 

[Bald Rick]

Individual time-trial today over the traditional British distance of 40 km/25 miles.

There will certainly be some changes in overall standings. Is Pogacar a much better time triallist than Vingegaard?

3 minutes is an awful lot to pull out of 40k.

Vingegaard has it, surely.