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Today's Pet hate - tipping & self service

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Butts

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Butts - how much do you 'tip' the VTEC staff who serve all those complimentary drinks you have? ;)

Certainly some have deserved a reward for the copious quantities imbibed, especially "double-up" Stewards. However there are those lurking who treat the stock in a parsimonious manner as though it belonged to them personally.

I normally attempt to "drink my fare" <D
 
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crispy1978

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Interesting one this - different people have different views from when I have discussed this.

Generally, I might round up the taxi driver or hairdresser, if it is £5.80 and I have £6.00 handy - these are always paid in cash, so it is so much easier.

Restaurants - I find they have shot themselves in the foot here more recently. The card machines, 95% of the time, just put the £24.50 meal through and unless you have change (which non-drivers like us need for the taxi!) you don't have change to leave a tip. If my wife and I are eating out, either just us both, or with our family, we always tend to pay by card. We do make an exception for our local favourite restaurant, and always chuck them a couple of quid.

I was told once by a restaurant owner, when I queried this, that his accountant said it was a bad idea to put the tips through the card machine.

The difference is when we are eating out as a group - and this is where we always overtip, and it does bug generally. We went out recently, there were 12 of us, and the bill came to (say) £205.80 - we aren't generally a "mine is £15.95, yours is £21.65 because you had 2 beers, and I only had 2 J20s", it's more a "let's say £20 each" which is obviously a £35-ish tip. I did say once we should put £20 in to a kitty, and save it for next time, but that was deemed too much of a hassle(!)

My grandparents always used to give the paperboy, milkman, postman, binmen a "Christmas Box" back in the day which I did think was a nice touch, but it's a tradition which I think has passed generally now.
 

richw

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I was told once by a restaurant owner, when I queried this, that his accountant said it was a bad idea to put the tips through the card machine.
.

The phrase "cooking the books" comes to mind. A transaction that doesn't go through the till not wanted by card so there is no record of them, just like my local mechanic knocks 10% off the labour rate if I pay by cash and don't need an invoice for the labour, I.e. An invoice for supplying a part to diy fit rather than one showing the works been done. I never do this as I like a paper record of what's actually been done to my car, but I've been made aware by him such discount is available. He is a one man business working on his home driveway.

From the caterer.com

All tips received, in whatever form, are taxable income and subject to income tax. Cash tips are only tax-free if no one tells HMRC about them, which is tax evasion - a very serious offence. Discretionary service charges and credit card tips must always be taxed, at source, under PAYE.
 
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Tom B

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Taxi driver takings varies hugely. I was talking to a driver recently. Because of the excessive number of licences his authority handed out, I was the first passenger he'd had from the rank in an hour. Self employed owner driver. My fare was £4.50, so that's his income for the hour less fuel etc he probably was at a loss!

The same thing is reported to be happening with minicab drivers in London, due to that god-awful uber bunch. TfL do not restrict the number of minicab licenses dished out and (as anybody who has witnessed the driving of the high number of Toyota Priuses etc can tell you) the bar is not exactly set very high.

Conversely, proper taxis (hackney carriages) can earn a respectable living - just look at the places in London you see taxis on the driveways!

My grandparents always used to give the paperboy, milkman, postman, binmen a "Christmas Box" back in the day which I did think was a nice touch, but it's a tradition which I think has passed generally now.

Or, as alluded to, that people no longer have the individual connection.
When I was a child, only 20 years or so ago, I knew the milkman, postman, chap who ran the paper shop etc by name, and the bin men were regulars. Nowadays, there isn't any continuity (and some trades such as milkmen are far less widely seen than before, whilst newspapers may not come from Fred Blogg's corner shop, but the Tesco Express).

The phrase "cooking the books" comes to mind. A transaction that doesn't go through the till not wanted by card so there is no record of them, just like my local mechanic knocks 10% off the labour rate if I pay by cash and don't need an invoice for the labour, I.e. An invoice for supplying a part to diy fit rather than one showing the works been done. I never do this as I like a paper record of what's actually been done to my car, but I've been made aware by him such discount is available. He is a one man business working on his home driveway.

The morals surrounding tax evasion are interesting. If, for instance, a tradesman offers such a discount, it is usually obvious why. How many people would take the offer up?

Equally, on a wider note, say I repair my friend's car/laptop/phone on my day off and they give me £40 cash - now presumably to be above the board, I would need to report this income to the Inland Revenue.
But what if, instead of giving me £40 cash, they take me out to a nice restaurant for dinner which comes to £40? Both essentially the same benefit but one in a more liquid form. Neither is in pursuit of a commercial business - just a favour for a friend.

(Equally, if you give somebody a lift in a private car, I understand that they can give you petrol money without any problems but if they give you more than that, in consideration for your time, you should declare the income and have appropriate hire and reward insurance... so what if you give somebody a lift, they give you £5 although the petrol cost is somewhat smaller?)

And to go the full circle back to taxis, rules change in October (I believe) and they will mandate that all taxis must be fitted with chip&pin readers. So will we see a sort of reverse-tipping - "that's £31.80 on the meter mate, or £30 for cash"?

(All of this, of course, is somewhat irrelevant compared to the huge amount of tax evasion by large businesses, but it would not suit to have them held to account).
 
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DynamicSpirit

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The same thing is reported to be happening with minicab drivers in London, due to that god-awful uber bunch. TfL do not restrict the number of minicab licenses dished out and (as anybody who has witnessed the driving of the high number of Toyota Priuses etc can tell you) the bar is not exactly set very high.

I'm not sure TfL have any power to limit the number of licenses even if they wanted to. Their registration page states (my emphasis):

TfL said:
We continue to receive a large number of private hire driver applications every week (numbers have doubled in the past two years), and are legally required to issue a licence to anyone who meets our criteria for licensing.
 

richw

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The morals surrounding tax evasion are interesting. If, for instance, a tradesman offers such a discount, it is usually obvious why. How many people would take the offer up?

Equally, on a wider note, say I repair my friend's car/laptop/phone on my day off and they give me £40 cash - now presumably to be above the board, I would need to report this income to the Inland Revenue.
But what if, instead of giving me £40 cash, they take me out to a nice restaurant for dinner which comes to £40? Both essentially the same benefit but one in a more liquid form. Neither is in pursuit of a commercial business - just a favour for a friend.

(Equally, if you give somebody a lift in a private car, I understand that they can give you petrol money without any problems but if they give you more than that, in consideration for your time, you should declare the income and have appropriate hire and reward insurance... so what if you give somebody a lift, they give you £5 although the petrol cost is somewhat smaller?)
.
If your friend takes you out for a meal rather than pay you, technically it's a benefit in kind for service provided, which is taxable.
Regarding petrol money I believe current maximum undeclarable amount is 45p for first 10000 miles, then a lower rate thereafter. My Insurance has a clause not permitted to be used for hire or reward, so I couldn't make a profit, but arguably wear and tear costs etc comes into it, and I believe the 45p a mile hmrc rate is based on petrol, wear and tear, insurance etc for an average car,
Let's be realistic our mates aren't going to drop us in.
 

Bletchleyite

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45p/mile (or 25p/mile above 10K business miles per year) is generally considered the definition of "hire/reward" so far as receiving petrol money is concerned (don't forget other aspects, though, like being paid for doing the driving as part of your work) - but some insurers are stricter so it can be wise to check.
 

crispy1978

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If your friend takes you out for a meal rather than pay you, technically it's a benefit in kind for service provided, which is taxable.
Regarding petrol money I believe current maximum undeclarable amount is 45p for first 10000 miles, then a lower rate thereafter. My Insurance has a clause not permitted to be used for hire or reward, so I couldn't make a profit, but arguably wear and tear costs etc comes into it, and I believe the 45p a mile hmrc rate is based on petrol, wear and tear, insurance etc for an average car,
Let's be realistic our mates aren't going to drop us in.

If you provide a self-employed service, then it should be declared on your Tax Return - income and expenses. So, even if you earned £40 in cash or through other method (i.e. a meal out) you should declare it, along with your reasonable business expenses (45ppm for the first 10,000 business miles, tools, materials, etc). You pay tax on profits and might be able to claim refund on any losses - but your whole income and allowances for the tax year needs to be taken in to account.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've seen on menus where it says service not included, but a service charge of (10%) is recommended for parties of (6/8) or more.

Guessing the restaurant is suggesting the waiter/waitress is "employed" by your party once it reaches a set number of people, but from experience this isn't usually the case as they just serve whoever goes "excuse me" as they walk past.
 

fowler9

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I used to do a pretty big Sunday paper round. In general it covered some pretty big south Liverpool houses and also your regular terraced houses. The people in the terraced houses generally gave you a couple of quid at Christmas, I don't recall anyone in the larger houses ever giving a penny. Maybe thats how they afforded the bigger house.

The icing on the Christmas Cake was that the people in the bigger houses all seemed to get the Sunday Times and had posh letter boxes that were tighter than a ducks bum so you spent five minutes at each house posting each of the 50 segments of the paper through separately..... and then they would complain to the shop owner because their own letter box had still shredded the paper.

The biggest tipper was a lady who was a psychic occasionally used by Merseyside Police! Ha ha. Maybe she knew something the others didn't.
 
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