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Ticket purchase issues on heritage railways

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DanNCL

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Does anyone know what the legal situation is if you board a heritage railway train without a valid ticket? is it a criminal offense like on the mainline railway or is it a purely civil matter?
Can only comment for the line I volunteer at - our policy is to allow people to purchase on the train if they wish so boarding without a ticket isn’t in itself an issue, indeed I’d estimate around half of our passengers buy onboard. If someone refused to buy a ticket then it would be reported to management for them to decide what course of action to take, the options they have available to them include going down the legal route.

I also volunteer as a crossing keeper and in that role we often get a lot of hassle from impatient motorists who seem to think that because we’re a heritage railway they don’t have to wait for the red lights at the level crossing for us. As such I’m used to dealing with confrontation and therefore on the rare occasions there is any confrontation onboard the train over tickets I’m comfortable handling it.

The legal route is complicated by the fact that we can’t directly prosecute people and that policing is virtually nil - local police won’t get involved as we’re a railway and therefore tell us to contact the BTP, the BTP won’t get involved as we’re a heritage line and therefore tell as to contact the local force.
When it comes to non-compliance at level crossings, such is the lack of help from the police that when a corporate vehicle recently failed to stop for the red lights and narrowly missed hitting the crossing keeper, the railway ended up contacting the company the vehicle belonged to directly, unfortunately we don’t have that option for private cars.

I’ve not yet had anyone refuse to buy a ticket, though I did recently have someone attempt to short fare. They were at the far end of a busy train and I was the only TTI, we’d already left the next stop by the time I’d reached them. Unfortunately for them I’d observed the passengers boarding at said intermediate stop, all zero of them!
I try to get through the entire train between each stop for precisely that reason.
 
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DJ_K666

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There are ticket offices at all the stations, it’s just unfortunate that the OP has a very tight connection and they don’t know if they can go until the day - you can still book online the previous night.

It is a shame about the TTI situation and it is something that will hopefully change soon. Unfortunately, it is one of the less popular roles, and it doesn’t interest most people.
It's a shame the Bluebell isn't set up to sell M-tickets so you'd just download a QR code to your smartphone, not unlike Trainline, or have through ticketing from BR, similar to the old Island Luner ticket on the Isle of Wight.
 

yorkie

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It's a shame the Bluebell isn't set up to sell M-tickets...
I would certainly hope they don't issue m-tickets; these are tied to a specific device and are fraught with problems!

An e-ticket is issued as a PDF (and, optionally, additionally available in apps etc) with an Aztec barcode and would be absolutely fine.
so you'd just download a QR code to your smartphone, not unlike Trainline, or have through ticketing from BR, similar to the old Island Luner ticket on the Isle of Wight.
Bear in mind that for transport use, QR codes are generally not used; instead Aztec codes are much more suited to transport use. They are also encrypted and you need decryption keys and software to be able to make sense of the Aztec code. It would have a cost element.

Issuing a ticket as an unencrypted QR code is risky as there would be no protection and anyone could read the data, see what the format of the ticket is, and create their own copies. It would need to be done in addition to something else, e.g. a passenger may be required to show ID or something like that. But that introduces other challenges.
 

renegademaster

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I would certainly hope they don't issue m-tickets; these are tied to a specific device and are fraught with problems!

An e-ticket is issued as a PDF (and, optionally, additionally available in apps etc) with an Aztec barcode and would be absolutely fine.

Bear in mind that for transport use, QR codes are generally not used; instead Aztec codes are much more suited to transport use. They are also encrypted and you need decryption keys and software to be able to make sense of the Aztec code. It would have a cost element.

Issuing a ticket as an unencrypted QR code is risky as there would be no protection and anyone could read the data, see what the format of the ticket is, and create their own copies. It would need to be done in addition to something else, e.g. a passenger may be required to show ID or something like that. But that introduces other challenges.
Public key cryptography is pretty well known and simple to implement , reckon any 2nd year computer science student who knows a bit of python or javscript could throw a system together with the use of open source libaries in a couple of hours, im sure the events industry must have something out the box you can buy. If you can cope with only being able to check when you have an internet connection its just polling a database for a booking reference.
 

Bletchleyite

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Public key cryptography is pretty well known and simple to implement , reckon any 2nd year computer science student who knows a bit of python or javscript could throw a system together with the use of open source libaries in a couple of hours, im sure the events industry must have something out the box you can buy.

While their fees per ticket are a bit steep (no subscription, though) and it's not directly designed for railways, Eventbrite offers exactly that sort of thing. It even provides the mobile app to scan them to verify, too.

Fareharbor is another one that a very large number of preserved lines seem to use.
 

DJ_K666

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I would certainly hope they don't issue m-tickets; these are tied to a specific device and are fraught with problems!

An e-ticket is issued as a PDF (and, optionally, additionally available in apps etc) with an Aztec barcode and would be absolutely fine.

Bear in mind that for transport use, QR codes are generally not used; instead Aztec codes are much more suited to transport use. They are also encrypted and you need decryption keys and software to be able to make sense of the Aztec code. It would have a cost element.

Issuing a ticket as an unencrypted QR code is risky as there would be no protection and anyone could read the data, see what the format of the ticket is, and create their own copies. It would need to be done in addition to something else, e.g. a passenger may be required to show ID or something like that. But that introduces other challenges.
Ah yes I was thinking of E-tickets.

I didn't know that about QR codes.
 

cav1975

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.... have through ticketing from BR, similar to the old Island Luner ticket on the Isle of Wight.
The Island Liner still exists but these days it covers travel only on the Isle of Wight. Available on both Island railways on all steam running days except Santa Specials, Boxing Day & New Years Day. https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tickets-railcards-offers/promotions/island-liner-day-rover/

There is a ticket that Hovertravel sell (Hover Rover Rail) which covers the hovercraft to and from the Island; Island Line to & from Smallbrook Junction and acts as a 3rd class all day ticket on the Isle of Wight Steam Railway. It used to cover the whole Island Line to Shanklin but the current wording seems to exclude that. While available from Hovertravel on-line it has to be printed before use. https://www.hovertravel.co.uk/explore/hoverexplore-isle-of-wight/isle-of-wight-steam-railway/
 
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