Theoretical Rail Operations

[MrSir]

I was thinking, what if the railways had never been privatised? I was also wondering if the Welsh Premier Service aka 'Gerald of Wales' would be an Intercity service or a Regional Railways service.

 

[py_megapixel]

You've come to (almost) the right place - this forum has an entire section essentially dedicated to "what if" questions!

https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/speculative-ideas.172/

There are some fairly extensive discussions in there which you might find to be of interest. I can't remember your exact question ever having come up, but there's all kinds of threads about (for example) what would have happened if BR prototype projects such as the APT had been a success

 

[BayPaul]

I was thinking, what if the railways had never been privatised? I was also wondering if the Welsh Premier Service aka 'Gerald of Wales' would be an Intercity service or a Regional Railways service.

I suspect that things would still look a lot more like the railway system we have now, rather than the 1990s system preserved in aspic. BR changed branding pretty regularly, so the idea that it would still be NSE toothpaste, Intercity Swallow and RR blue is very unlikely, and I would imagine that the size and shape, and perhaps even concept of the various sectors would have changed a lot too.
In particular, I think that Scotrail, Wales and Borders and Overground would have been devolved similarly to today, so Gerald would probably be a TfW service just as now.

 

[Alanko]

Interesting thread, though if there is already a sub forum for this stuff then it might not be gifted with much longevity.

I was trying to find out more about 'Highland Rail' last week, as the emblem of stag on a yellow background has occasionally been reissued in modern times, most recently on a DB 66 (which almost makes it a celebrity shed?).

It seems that 'Highland Rail' was just something applied to diesels stabled in Inverness?

What if you split Scotland into Highland Rail and Rest of Scotland (RoS) Rail? Accept that Scotland's network and geography is too complex for a single operator to be able to focus on a densely suburban electric service and pootling jointed rail single track stuff in the far north? Get Highlands and Islands Enterprise involved and run the whole lot out of Inverness. Bring back the bubble cars in tourist livery...

 

[MrSir]

BR changed branding pretty regularly, so the idea that it would still be NSE toothpaste, Intercity Swallow and RR blue is very unlikely, and I would imagine that the size and shape, and perhaps even concept of the various sectors would have changed a lot too.
In particular, I think that Scotrail, Wales and Borders and Overground would have been devolved similarly to today, so Gerald would probably be a TfW service just as now.

Yea, you're probably right since the Underground wasn't Network Southeast operated in the 1990s (apart from the Waterloo & City line) so right now it would probably be like that but what if Gerald of Wales existed in the early 80s - late 90s? Then what would be classified as?

 

[6Gman]

Yea, you're probably right since the Underground wasn't Network Southeast operated in the 1990s (apart from the Waterloo & City line) so right now it would probably be like that but what if Gerald of Wales existed in the early 80s - late 90s? Then what would be classified as?

Gerald only exists because of devolution so I don't think it could have existed prior to the post-97 devolution settlement.

 

[MrSir]

Gerald only exists because of devolution so I don't think it could have existed prior to the post-97 devolution settlement.

What if it had nothing to do with Gerald and it was just called the Premier service and existed sometime between the 80s and 90s? Then would it be Regional or Intercity?

 

[quantinghome]

What if it had nothing to do with Gerald and it was just called the Premier service and existed sometime between the 80s and 90s? Then would it be Regional or Intercity?

It would almost certainly be Regional, just like the longer distance Manchester-Cardiff service. Under British Rail, Intercity contained only routes which generated a profit. That's why Gatwick Express was part of Intercity despite being an airport shuttle, but Transpennine was 'regional' despite connecting loads of cities together.

If Gerald had run in the 90s it would probably have used Cl 158s and been called 'Alphaline' which was the brand used by Regional Railways for their enhanced longer distance services.

 

[6Gman]

What if it had nothing to do with Gerald and it was just called the Premier service and existed sometime between the 80s and 90s? Then would it be Regional or Intercity?

I wasn't referring to the name, I was referring to the idea of a Holyhead - Cardiff service providing an enhanced service over the standard offering.