Theft of cable from the railways

[DaveNewcastle]

The theft of cable is getting serious. In a Press Release from BTP yesterday, 2 men in the Rotherham area were sentenced to 2 months in prison, convicted of stealing NR cable last yearhttp://www.btp.presscentre.com/....

In NR's statements to the Press in Sept 07 they announced £1000 rewards for info leading to prosecution for cable theft in the WF (Wakefield) & TS (Teesside) postcode areas. The problem does seem to be concentrated in the North East.

"In 2006/07 cable theft directly caused more than 145 000 minutes of delay to trains in the North East area. The estimated cost to Network Rail of that crime was approximately £10 million - money which will have to be diverted from maintaining and improving the railway elsewhere.

From 1 April to 18 Aug 2007 there have been 269 incidents on the London North Eastern route. That has resulted in 68,500 minutess delay.
In the Wakefield area there have been 39 incidents in the same period - causing 24, 647 delay minutes.
In the Tees Valley area there have been 69 incidents in the same period - causing 11, 069 minutes delay.

The British Transport Police have recorded 1158 offences of cable theft since April 2006 in the North East area and have arrested more than 470 people.

The reward is up to £1,000 for information which leads to the arrest AND conviction of a person or persons for the theft of copper cable from the rail network. This reward is only available for crimes committed within the WF/TS postcode and is offered up to 28 February 2008. "

Presumably most of this thieving takes place when there is little or no traffic but surely we should all be looking out for this activity - its not just signalling cable on the ground but also from overhead catenery! It cripples the network and costs a lot.

 

[ChrisCooper]

The high price of metals like copper is meaning that theft is a big problem for everyone these days. Due to the uses of these materials, in many cases the knock on costs of the theft are much higher than the actual value of material stolen, with important wiring or piping being stolen. In other cases, very valuble items have been stolen and destroyed to gain their metal of much less value. Transport, Power Supply, Telecomunications, Construction and many more industries are suffering very badly for it. Quite a few people have been killed trying to steal high voltage copper cables. Even worse, much more serious incidents have been caused due to this issue, such as explosions or fires caused by theft or attempted theft of gas pipes. It's ironic that these days, metal prices are so high that metal value of 1p and 2p coins is actually higher than the monetary value, and they are made of "cheap" metals (were they pure copper it would be even worse).

 

[P156KWJ]

funnily enough, it happened to me coming back from Sheffield today (the third time it's happened) and all the signalling around Chesterfield is no more than 6 months old.

 

[Mojo]

You'll find that more modern cables are not made of copper but are fibre optic, the scrap value of which is minimal, I can only assume the thieves are chancing it and do not know what type of cables they are removing.

 

[Jordy]

The Chesterfield/Clay Cross area has been badly hit by this in recent months.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

You'll find that more modern cables are not made of copper but are fibre optic, the scrap value of which is minimal, I can only assume the thieves are chancing it and do not know what type of cables they are removing.

Yes up to a point, but it IS the copper that theives are targettting. In 2006 BTP reported dealing with 901 thefts of copper cables in the North East and relating it to the sharp global price rise in copper.

"For the 12 months up until the end of April (2007), more than 200 people were arrested by the British Transport Police for a crime which is growing with the rise in copper prices.
It is estimated the crime is at its highest level in this region.Andy Trotter, deputy chief constable of the British Transport police, said: "It is a growing problem.
You have only got to look at the rising copper price on the metal market and the theft of copper matches that rise almost absolutely."

Last May, Trotter said "Copper theft is a major problem in north-east England, accounting for nearly two-thirds of the delays related to metal thieves in the UK and wreaking havoc with the Northern Trains franchise."

There! an excuse for NT! and its official!

 

[Mojo]

I know they are targetting copper, but as I said it's not always clear on the difference.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Unless they mark the cables with "Fibre Optic" then they will always cut them just to see what the cable is made of.
Cut their hands off, that'll stop 'em doing it again! (or put 25kv through said cables... Same effect, they won't do it again!) I admit that both are a little drastic...

 

[Siggi155]

Here in Germany it is a big problem, too. I remember February last year, when there was stolen catenary and the rails of some unused tracks in Cornberg. By night some people did short-cicuit the catenary and pulled it down with a front loader. They were catched 2 days later at the german-polish border. On the truck was also found nearly 200m of rails. It was noticed by all drivers (electric train) cause the current has fallen to 0 apruptly at the whole line between Eichenberg and Bebra (in the mid of Germany). And in 2006 year the rails of an whole abandoned line near Marburg were stolen.

 

[b2danm]

Hi All. A newbie to this forum,

Just reading your comments on cables.

Fibre Optics are only used for certain types of signalling systems such as newer data transmission, Ansaldo, SSI etc. The rest of the cables esp. from Relay Rooms to signalling equipment uses multicore copper cable.

Fibre optic cables are easily distinguishable from copper cables as copper cables are more flexible. FO cables are rather stiff as you'd expect from the re-inforcement parts of the system to prevent the glass tubes from breaking. Copper cables are much less "plasticy" and more rubbery!

And if a cable thief is after a cable, then they'll just disc cut the entire cable route, choose the best and ignore the rest!

b2
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Unless they mark the cables with "Fibre Optic" then they will always cut them just to see what the cable is made of.
Cut their hands off, that'll stop 'em doing it again! (or put 25kv through said cables... Same effect, they won't do it again!) I admit that both are a little drastic...

We run 650v AC Through the main power cables if thats drastic enough. There have been reports of scorched hands/skin left on them!

 

[Juniper Driver]

Didn't this happen down the Portsmouth Road last week?

 

[P156KWJ]

At the Nottingham Transport Heritage centre where I volunteer, in our staff meeting we said that the problem has got so bad that they are having to turn the yard into a secure compound, costing the company some £45,000. We had a distant signal arm stolen, and the police see it as petty crime that is not important. Well guess what boys in blue, it is a crime that prevents safe-running of the railway, which can be life-threatening. We also have lots of other vandalism too.

 

[Kneedown]

and all the signalling around Chesterfield is no more than 6 months old.

The new signalling doesn't start until Coney Green-Morton on the Erewash valley, even so the new fibre optic cables were stolen only a week or so after the new signalling was commissioned. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the Pikeys tried to sell it!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The theft of cable is getting serious. In a Press Release from BTP yesterday, 2 men in the Rotherham area were sentenced to 2 months in prison, convicted of stealing NR cable last year

No wonder it's such a problem when pathetic sentences like that are being dished out!
I say 5 years, being whipped to within an inch of their lives every day, and all the offending Pikey's assets sequestrated as compensation leaving the whole family destitute!

And yes, i'm serious!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

its not just signalling cable on the ground but also from overhead catenery!

Now THAT could be entertaining to watch!

 

[adamp]

It did get a mention on that Tonight With Trevor McDonald investigation last night about basically everything metal getting nicked (bus shelters, man hole covers, cable from railways etc..) which are obviously stolen, yet the scrap yards still take them in.

Its getting absolutely stupid and pathetic, churches cant even have lead on their roofs without it being robbed!

 

[Metroland]

Time to regulate scrapyards and secure the borders.

Any scrapyards taking stolen equipment on a persistent basis should be shut down and their owners jailed.

 

[adamp]

Most scrapyards are regulated...and arent doing their job properly.
Police say more should be done...aka NOT cash in hand.

The new signalling doesn't start until Coney Green-Morton on the Erewash valley, even so the new fibre optic cables were stolen only a week or so after the new signalling was commissioned. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the Pikeys tried to sell it!

----------------

No wonder it's such a problem when pathetic sentences like that are being dished out!
I say 5 years, being whipped to within an inch of their lives every day, and all the offending Pikey's assets sequestrated as compensation leaving the whole family destitute!

How about a nice, big few whips on the arse with the same cable they stole.
They might think twice then.

 

[Metroland]

Hmn, sounds like the police need to go in there and check a few things themselves as they come in.

 

[paul1609]

Alledgedly the scrapyard involved in the Portsmouth incident assumed that their purchase was legitimate as the stolen cable was being delivered by employees of the major contractor in company vehicles. They were happy to share their CCTV showing several "railway' workers to police!

 

[Kneedown]

How about a nice, big few whips on the arse with the same cable they stole.
They might think twice then.

Sounds good to me! :razz:

It's the only language folks like that understand. Community service is a joke to them, as are fines, and currently, prisons have all the home comforts and mod-cons. You even have your meals cooked for you, and can spend the rest of the time relaxing at your leisure, otherwise it would be a breach of "Yuman Rights".
Sad state of the Country, when dirty, theiving pondlife have more rights and have it easier than the rest of us honest hardworking folk! :-x
It's about time they shook up the Police Force as well. When my home gets burgled, i don't want a "nice" Officer to come round, who's been on x amount of diversity courses, bearing crime numbers, i want a nasty piece of work who's going to hunt down the scr*tes and knock seven shades of sh** out of them before flinging them in the cells!

 

[adamp]

Community service is a joke to them, as are fines, and currently, prisons have all the home comforts and mod-cons. You even have your meals cooked for you, and can spend the rest of the time relaxing at your leisure, otherwise it would be a breach of "Yuman Rights".
Sad state of the Country, when dirty, theiving pondlife have more rights and have it easier than the rest of us honest hardworking folk! :-x
It's about time they shook up the Police Force as well. When my home gets burgled, i don't want a "nice" Officer to come round, who's been on x amount of diversity courses, bearing crime numbers, i want a nasty piece of work who's going to hunt down the scr*tes and knock seven shades of sh** out of them before flinging them in the cells!

Couldnt agree more!!!!!!!!!! :razz:

Who ever invented all this 'human rights' crap should be shot.
I totally dont agree with it all....and coming from a 14 year old...whips and caines SHOULD be brought back in schools right now...to atleast try and get some respect and authority back into the people our future depends on.
Maybe then all this pathetic crap just like stealing railway cable for a small amount of money will stop...and thugs actually going out and earning a living...??? - Its a possiblity!

 

[Kneedown]

Couldnt agree more!!!!!!!!!! :razz:

Who ever invented all this 'human rights' crap should be shot.
I totally dont agree with it all....and coming from a 14 year old...whips and caines SHOULD be brought back in schools right now...to atleast try and get some respect and authority back into the people our future depends on.
Maybe then all this pathetic crap just like stealing railway cable for a small amount of money will stop...and thugs actually going out and earning a living...??? - Its a possiblity!

I don't mean to sound like an old git here (although at 38 i may well be!) but, whilst i never got caned at school, i got slapped, rulered, blackboard rubbered, you name it!, but none of it ever did me any harm, and i knew better than to tell my Dad cos i'd have got another one off HIM! Nowadays Dad (If he's around!) would probably march the little darlings straight down to the Solicitors in search of compensation!
I think thats whats wrong with a lot of society today. We live in a world where pretty much everything is gained so easily. You can have what you want today, and pay for it later, and as a consequence we don't appreciate the value of something, because we havn't had to work hard for it. It's an easy come, easy go Society, and it manifests itself in these ways. Why should a little scr*te work hard for something when he can burgle a house sell the proceeds down the local?
It's a case of moral value has gone right out the window.

I don't tar all youth with the same brush however. You for instance, seem to have a good head on your shoulders. It's good to hear that there is hope!

 

[TheSlash]

Paul,

I think you'll find 2 stories have merged together regards the attempted cable theft at Port Creek junction.

 

[Metroland]

Oh well, they've rolled out the answer now...Flying all watching drone that squirt people!

The latest weapon against cable theft from railways across the north-east of England has been unveiled by British Transport Police (BTP).

The Microdrone is a remote controlled helicopter which hovers above railway lines and beams video footage back to operators on the ground.

In addition, it can squirt offenders with Smartwater security solution so they can be identified by police.

Scrap metal dealers are also being targeted during the national campaign.

Officers from Operation Drum, will visit scrap metal yards to check the books and inform proprietors of the crackdown and consequences of handling stolen goods.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7214151.stm

 

[Kneedown]

I'm just wondering if it flies out of the range of airgun pellets, or in the case of Manchester, London, or like me, Nottingham, real bullets!
I can see a whole new game for the chavs!

Maybe if it were adapted to squirt napalm, or liquefied Ebola, instead of water? :razz:

 

[Metroland]

Either way I have read that these flying drones are going to be a big part of things here, and a lot will be seen in the skies in the coming years for all sorts of uses - thanks to our scummy friends in society. Welcome to big brother I guess.

 

[Kneedown]

Either way I have read that these flying drones are going to be a big part of things here, and a lot will be seen in the skies in the coming years for all sorts of uses - thanks to our scummy friends in society. Welcome to big brother I guess.

It's a tragedy that our once free society has come to this. I always knew this government were a bunch of Stalinists!

If the Police's hands were untied from all the strict rules and petty procedures, and given the power (and therefore motivation!) to pursue offenders, and when caught and convicted were punished properly in a manner befitting the crime, with all assets seized, auctioned off and the proceeds donated as compensation for the IP's, then we would be living in a relatively safe, low crime society.

The lefties just will never admit that they are completely wrong though, that the kid glove treatment, rehabilitation and so forth just don't work and are seen as nothing more than a joke by offenders!
Here we are as a consequence!

 

[rower40]

Many MANY years ago, I was new to the railway, and my boss was telling me about things he'd worked on. For a very early ATP trial on the Crewe to Macclesfield line, he was putting short antennas of wire in the four-foot, which sent information to a receiver on the test train. The key to reducing cable theft, so he told me, was using very cheap cable (aluminium or steel rather than copper), and putting lots of foot-long off-cuts near each access point. This meant that the local pikeys could take one of the off-cuts, burn off the plastic and find that it wasn't worth stealing, rather than cutting in to a live operational circuit.

Does anyone out there know if this is still current practice? Off-cuts of fibre-optic would be particularly 'valuable' in this context - i.e. to demonstrate that they're not valuable at all.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I haven't checked this yet but if these drones are the design I think they are then they're not exactly going to be on automatic patrol of the PW.

They started tests in military service from about 2003 and more recently police service in the UK.
The maximum range from drone to their operator is 500mtrs, and their max. flight time is about 20minutes. Their operator uses a hand-held controller similar to a radio-controlled model.
So it follows that they are really only allowing officers on patrol "to see round corners". The cost of each drone is from £7k to £15K depending on which accessories are fitted.

Doesn't sound as if they're going to catch or even to deter thieves who are out of range of a BTP patrol.

 

[Metroland]

Give it a while, the things will be able to listen into private conversations from a mile away, be controlled from the other side of the world and run most of the day. £7-15k is cheap compared to a CCTV set up - of which we of course have more of than any other country, and currently 1000 bugging orders per day.

How we can be watched, according to the BBC

4.2m CCTV cameras
300 CCTV appearances a day
Reg plate recognition cameras
Shop RFID tags
Mobile phone triangulation
Store loyalty cards
Credit card transactions
London Oyster cards
Satellites
Electoral roll
NHS patient records
Personal video recorders
Phone-tapping
Hidden cameras/bugs
Worker call monitoring
Worker clocking-in
Mobile phone cameras
Internet cookies
Keystroke programmes

 

[turbostar naylor]

yeah there was something on the news the other day about phone tapping and they apply to tap 100s of thousands of phones every year and the majority they allow to tap.