The Lothian Saga - feedback requested

[GusB]

There are numerous threads concerning bus operations in the Lothian area, and lately there has been some confusion regarding what should be discussed and where.
We currently have:

• Lothian and ECB
• West Lothian buses
• East Lothian independents
• First group - Edinburgh Tours

I've probably missed a few, but my thoughts are that the current threads are a bit haphazard.

East Coast Buses is a separate legal entity. Should it have it's own thread? Lothian Country isn't, so should it be lumped in with the main Lothian thread? Should First Scotland East have its own thread? Should the Edinburgh Tours thread remit be expanded to encompass all tour operators within the Scottish capital?

Ideas welcome.

 

[scotrail158713]

East Coast Buses is a separate legal entity. Should it have it's own thread?

I wouldn’t say so, just because there is a lot of overlap between Lothian and ECB services within Edinburgh, and East and Midlothian - something that isn’t the case with Lothian Country in West Lothian.
For me personally, I find the current arrangements of threads fine - although if any changes were made I’m sure I’d get used to them.

 

[cnjb8]

There are numerous threads concerning bus operations in the Lothian area, and lately there has been some confusion regarding what should be discussed and where.
We currently have:

• Lothian and ECB
• West Lothian buses
• East Lothian independents
• First group - Edinburgh Tours

I've probably missed a few, but my thoughts are that the current threads are a bit haphazard.

East Coast Buses is a separate legal entity. Should it have it's own thread? Lothian Country isn't, so should it be lumped in with the main Lothian thread? Should First Scotland East have its own thread? Should the Edinburgh Tours thread remit be expanded to encompass all tour operators within the Scottish capital?

Ideas welcome.

I believe the First Scotland East and Lothian County threads were merged a few months back.

 

[overthewater]

Since West lothian was having a bus war it made more sense to have both First Scotland East and Lothian County in one thread.

• First group - Edinburgh Tours:

Maybe this should be changed to Edinburgh tours bus war?

• Lothian and ECB

These were put together because there ARE MORE integrated with each other.

 

[GusB]

Since West lothian was having a bus war it made more sense to have both First Scotland East and Lothian County in one thread.

• First group - Edinburgh Tours:

Maybe this should be changed to Edinburgh tours bus war?

• Lothian and ECB

These were put together because there ARE MORE integrated with each other.

I'd be hesitant to use the word "war", but I think a single thread discussing all Edinburgh tour operators would be better.

 

[CN04NRJ]

There are numerous threads concerning bus operations in the Lothian area, and lately there has been some confusion regarding what should be discussed and where.
We currently have:

• Lothian and ECB
• West Lothian buses
• East Lothian independents
• First group - Edinburgh Tours

I've probably missed a few, but my thoughts are that the current threads are a bit haphazard.

East Coast Buses is a separate legal entity. Should it have it's own thread? Lothian Country isn't, so should it be lumped in with the main Lothian thread? Should First Scotland East have its own thread? Should the Edinburgh Tours thread remit be expanded to encompass all tour operators within the Scottish capital?

Ideas welcome.

I'd be for a "Lothian Group" thread, encompassing all companies owned, as there's alot of overlap involved with vehicles - allocations and so on. Perhaps FSE + Bright Bus Tours could have it's own thread alongside a general west lothian discussion?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'd be hesitant to use the word "war", but I think a single thread discussing all Edinburgh tour operators would be better.

Tend to agree with you - threads with war or survival or whatever tend to be hyperbolic IMO.

A single thread for Edinburgh tours, one for Lothian/ECB. First Scotland East should have its own thread for general stuff (e.g. ALL fleet developments, services outside the WL competition).

However, the current West Lothian competition probably demands a dedicated thread and that naturally spans both First and LCB.

We just have to trust that people keep on topic and don’t go down rabbit holes or drift off topic too far.

 

[overthewater]

I have fixed the tour issues, that is one problem solved for that area.

 

[scosutsut]

At the risk of having too many threads how about:

West Lothian Competition
Edinburgh Tours Competition
Lothian Group
First East Scotland (or First West Lothian whatevers most appropriate)

That way, for example if you want to read about West Lothian competition you'd go to thread 1 but if you wanted to read about Lothian fleet transfers/sales/new vehicles you'd be on thread 3.

 

[DunsBus]

I have fixed the tour issues, that is one problem solved for that area.

I'd suggest remaining it to Edinburgh Bus Tours & Bright Bus. Lothian themselves don't operate tours.

 

[Stan Drews]

I'd suggest remaining it to Edinburgh Bus Tours & Bright Bus. Lothian themselves don't operate tours.

Isn’t that a bit like saying Stagecoach don’t operate buses in Fife, so there should be a Fife Scottish thread?

I just think that if everyone was a little less pedantic, and tried where possible not to veer too far from the threads, we’d be fine. There is always going to be a certain amount of overlap when you have individual group operator threads as well as geographic area threads.

 

[CN04NRJ]

It's still part of t

At the risk of having too many threads how about:

West Lothian Competition
Edinburgh Tours Competition
Lothian Group
First East Scotland (or First West Lothian whatevers most appropriate)

That way, for example if you want to read about West Lothian competition you'd go to thread 1 but if you wanted to read about Lothian fleet transfers/sales/new vehicles you'd be on thread 3.

That seems like the perfect solution to me, but perhaps West Lothian Competition & other WL operators.

 

[overthewater]

At the risk of having too many threads how about:

West Lothian Competition
Edinburgh Tours Competition
Lothian Group
First East Scotland (or First West Lothian whatevers most appropriate)

That way, for example if you want to read about West Lothian competition you'd go to thread 1 but if you wanted to read about Lothian fleet transfers/sales/new vehicles you'd be on thread 3.

We already had First East Scotland Thread IE midland bluebird. The following would be the best and simplest way forward.

West Lothian buses
Edinburgh Tours
Lothian Group
Midland Bluebird:
#############################################

 

[PaulMc7]

I'd probably keep the forums the same as they are currently except the Edinburgh tours one with all tours in the city being under 1 thread. There tends to be a lot of overlap and comparison between First and Lothian Country so I'd definitely keep that as 1 individual West Lothian thread

 

[Jordan Adam]

I'd agree with past comments, the "Lothian" thread should include all Lothian companies, there's no need for LC, LMC & ECB to have separate threads as you'd just end up with the main "Buses & Coaches" page being cluttered with threads.

"First Midland Bluebird" thread should be renamed to "First Scotland East" since that's the official opco name. "Midland Bluebird" gives the impression that the thread doesn't include West Lothian which would make no sense since it's part of the FSE opco.

"First Group - Edinburgh Tours" could perhaps by merged in to the "West Lothian Buses" or "First Scotland East" thread.

 

[scosutsut]

On reflection and taking in subsequent suggestions:

Rename Lothian and ECB - Lothian Group
Rename First Midland Bluebird - First Scotland East
Merge West Lothian Buses and Edinburgh Tours/Bright Bus Tours and rename as Firstbus / Lothian Group Competition

Then anything that isn't First, Lothian or First Vs Lothian can justify its own thread and not be bogged down / lost within chat related to the above?

 

[Siemens Trains]

On reflection and taking in subsequent suggestions:

Rename Lothian and ECB - Lothian Group
Rename First Midland Bluebird - First Scotland East
Merge West Lothian Buses and Edinburgh Tours/Bright Bus Tours and rename as Firstbus / Lothian Group Competition

Then anything that isn't First, Lothian or First Vs Lothian can justify its own thread and not be bogged down / lost within chat related to the above?

Maybe that would work. I'm not too worried or confused by the present arrangement - it's very difficult to get an exact match and there's a lot of readacross. In general the off-topic chat doesn't bother me much either until it stretches into several pages so I'm quite happy for operators other than Lothian and First to be mentioned without needing a new thread.

As a passenger I'd be inclined to split out Edinburgh city tour debates from West Lothian service dicussion. However I appreciate those in the business view them as similar 'battles' in the same 'war'.

Therefore if it really must change, and looking at the present volume of posts against each topic, I'd be happy with:

1. Edinburgh Bus Tours (and uniforms)
2. Fleet News for SE Scotland Depots (and associated head injuries - still raises a smile for me)
3. West Lothian and Midland Route Network (small area presently changing rapidly)
4. Edinburgh, Midlothian & East Lothian Route Network (large area presently changing slowly)

Not sure where company accounts and toilet tickling incidents would find a home. Maybe section 2 could be used for detail on how the companies are run in addition to the number of rivets specified on the driver's seat.

 

[Jordan Adam]

On reflection and taking in subsequent suggestions:

Rename Lothian and ECB - Lothian Group
Rename First Midland Bluebird - First Scotland East
Merge West Lothian Buses and Edinburgh Tours/Bright Bus Tours and rename as Firstbus / Lothian Group Competition

Then anything that isn't First, Lothian or First Vs Lothian can justify its own thread and not be bogged down / lost within chat related to the above?

I agree with this. Have a separate thread for each company and then have another thread discussing the "ongoing battle". To be honest i don't see much issue with the current set up other than the naming of the "First Midland Bluebird" thread which should be "First Scotland East".

 

[Bus9120UK]

On reflection and taking in subsequent suggestions:

Rename Lothian and ECB - Lothian Group
Rename First Midland Bluebird - First Scotland East
Merge West Lothian Buses and Edinburgh Tours/Bright Bus Tours and rename as Firstbus / Lothian Group Competition

Then anything that isn't First, Lothian or First Vs Lothian can justify its own thread and not be bogged down / lost within chat related to the above?

This is the best option personally, easy to understand and much better layed out.

 

[GusB]

Many thanks for your feedback, folks. I'll have a chat with the team and we'll see what we can come up with.