The best and worst countries for railway ticketing.

[AdamWW]

Larger countries with, AFAIK, no ´real´ lower advance tickets/fares, are mostly Eastern-Europe, probably heritage of the past. Hungary, Slovenija, the 3 baltics; Lithuania/Latvia/Eestti=Estonia spring in my mind. From what I recall the cheaper/lower advance tickets they do offer are for INTernational. So there might be the odd case where such a ticket would come out a few cents cheaper as a domestic fare for a longer run. But this may well have been introduced since I did my last search-years ago by now.
Also here in ASEAN its the norm: Thailand, Malaysia, Laos, Cambodia do not offer them. BUT there is for some populair routes/seasons in higher demand another catch: such tickets in the classes in higher demand (yes, 1st cl. sleepers) are snapped up by agencies as soon as released/open for sale who then sell them onward to customers in the know at an added premium. But all the time I visit THailand-by now well over 33 years, the basic 3d cl. regional fares have not been raised. But the various supplements for express/sleeper etc. have been. In that time basic BMTA Bangkok citybuses fares have gone up from then 2 to now 8 THB. Some other mostly aimed at locals state-set prices are also stable all that time, like some specific postage stamps.

I think advance fares for domestic journeys in Switzerland are a fairly recent introduction.

 

[Mainline421]

Finland has more flexibility on commuter services, but yeah, all long-distance and regional trains are advances with seat reservations on long-distance trains. Obviously we also have season tickets and multi-tickets which allow you to book a journey very close to the time, but only if there are seats/spaces free.

Season tickets don't require a seat reservation in Finland. VR is actually still a fully walk up railway, seat reservations aren't required on any train, and you can purchase tickets on board the train as a legitimate advertised option.

They do the same trick as LNER and block online (and in VR's case even station) sales without a reservation though. But I usually buy tickets from the TVM, often <5 minutes before departure and prices are still reasonable

 

[CarrotPie]

Season tickets don't require a seat reservation in Finland. VR is actually still a fully walk up railway, seat reservations aren't required on any train, and you can purchase tickets on board the train as a legitimate advertised option.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough with my previous message about other ticket types. Certain trains have specific seats reserved for season ticket holders (so you can't book them otherwise).

However, I wouldn't say that onboard purchasing is a "legitimate advertised option", because all trains now have big signs on the doors saying "Buy your ticket before you board the train" (or words to that effect) and commuter trains have operated on a penalty fare system for years, despite several stations not having TVMs or only having smashed-up ones. Not to mention the state of ticket inspections in the HSL area...

But it's not just commuter trains where that applies: VR's terms and conditions of carriage state:

An inspection fee may be imposed on passengers travelling without a ticket on VR’s long-distance trains. The passenger may continue their train trip by purchasing a full-price ticket. In other cases, the conductor has the right to remove a passenger from the train.

They do the same trick as LNER and block online (and in VR's case even station) sales without a reservation though. But I usually buy tickets from the TVM, often <5 minutes before departure and prices are still reasonable

Yes, and you can't book a journey where all the seats are reserved (long-distance trains), the quota is all used up (regional trains) or it's after the timetabled departure time. I've had issues before with a holiday ticket where I've wanted to take a service that is delayed, but because it should have already departed, I couldn't book that journey.

And one of the worst thing VR has done in recent years, apart from killing off all but 2 ticket offices, is now charging a 50-cent "printing fee" for every ticket bought from a TVM. No wonder more than 95% of passengers use the app - they have no choice!

 

[Mainline421]

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough with my previous message about other ticket types. Certain trains have specific seats reserved for season ticket holders (so you can't book them otherwise).

You don't need a booking at all with a season ticket, you just hop on and show it when asked, or reserve a seat after departure if available.

However, I wouldn't say that onboard purchasing is a "legitimate advertised option", because all trains now have big signs on the doors saying "Buy your ticket before you board the train" (or words to that effect) and commuter trains have operated on a penalty fare system for years, despite several stations not having TVMs or only having smashed-up ones. Not to mention the state of ticket inspections in the HSL area...

https://www.vr.fi/en/train-tickets/single-ticket-long-distance says the following, and you can also ask

With card payment from the train conductor. There is a surcharge for tickets sold onboard the train, which is 3 € for trips shorter than 76 km and 7 € for longer trips.

The posters on the outside are a little misleading granted, but they're clarified inside (image attached)

Yes, and you can't book a journey where all the seats are reserved (long-distance trains), the quota is all used up (regional trains) or it's after the timetabled departure time. I've had issues before with a holiday ticket where I've wanted to take a service that is delayed, but because it should have already departed, I couldn't book that journey.

You can, from the conductor (I speak from recent experience). Although this may not be compatible with the Holiday ticket (basically a rover with mandatory booking for UK readers). You're correct that this ironically doesn't apply to regional or commuter trains, where counterintuitively you're supposed to buy before boarding.

I wasn't aware that there's any quota for regional trains, but if so they still don't require reservation with Interrail, Nysse cards, or season tickets, and I haven't seen one with sales stopped for regular tickets.

 

[CarrotPie]

The posters on the outside are a little misleading granted, but they're clarified inside (image attached)

Yes, they're clarified inside...with stickers that often have the logo of a transport agency that's been defunct for 16 years (YTV) and anyway contradict themselves ("if you don't have the ticket, the conductor will sell you one, but anyone without a valid ticket will be charged a penalty fare plus the price of single ticket, oh and also they may be removed from the train").

I wasn't aware that there's any quota for regional trains, but if so they still don't require reservation with Interrail, Nysse cards, or season tickets, and I haven't seen one with sales stopped for regular tickets.

Regional trains do have some sort of quota number which is basically as full as they can physically get (don't remember the number), after which they can no longer be booked, unless VR order extra road coaches and manually put the service back on sale. In the summer, railcars are often sold out, because they're tiny and so many people want to use them (eg Seinäjoki-Jyväskylä).

Interrail accounts for such a tiny percentage of passengers that nobody really cares; Nysse tickets are used for short journeys on trains that generally have space for them, so again nobody cares.

You can, from the conductor (I speak from recent experience). Although this may not be compatible with the Holiday ticket (basically a rover with mandatory booking for UK readers). You're correct that this ironically doesn't apply to regional or commuter trains, where counterintuitively you're supposed to buy before boarding.

Yes, and when I wanted to travel on delayed long-distance trains, I just asked the conductors and they were fine with it. AFAIK, you also have to book regional trains and I think commuter trains too? It's been a year or two since I did my last trip with a holiday ticket, but VR's website says:

Single journeys must be reserved in the app before the scheduled departure of each train.

 

[Mainline421]

Yes, they're clarified inside...with stickers that often have the logo of a transport agency that's been defunct for 16 years (YTV) and anyway contradict themselves ("if you don't have the ticket, the conductor will sell you one, but anyone without a valid ticket will be charged a penalty fare plus the price of single ticket, oh and also they may be removed from the train").

The one pictured is clearly more recent, but if still have any doubts VR will happily confirm it. The meaning is pretty clear that you should find the conductor to purchase a ticket, if you just chance it and sit down then there may be further consequences.

 

[route101]

Advance tickets for very frequent services for example in the Netherlands make less sense, I guess its longer distance services?

 

[rvdborgt]

Advance tickets for very frequent services for example in the Netherlands make less sense, I guess its longer distance services?

There may be a minimum price/distance/journey time but I already see them for e.g. Vlissingen-Goes. You're not tied to a specific train, but you need to travel within a certain time slot.

 

[AdamWW]

There may be a minimum price/distance/journey time but I already see them for e.g. Vlissingen-Goes. You're not tied to a specific train, but you need to travel within a certain time slot.

Last summer CFR in Romania was very happy to sell me an advance ticket between Sinia Sud and Sinaia - travel time 3 minutes.

(I wanted to check before going to Romania that I could buy tickets on my phone. Not sure why I didn't think of buying a child ticket to not use though).

 

[TheSmiths82]

Spain can be difficult for local travel. Many of the trains run by the regions such as Catalonia have tickets that you can't buy on the Renfe (even though Renfe operate the trains on behalf of the regions) site. You also have to dig deep to find the timetables which are essential as the trains on to some of the smaller cities/towns are not that frequent. Then getting the tickets at some of the busier stations in Barcelona can be a nightmare with massive ques to use the machines. I was there in one July trying to get a train a local train to get out of Barcelona and it was a nightmare.

 

[DanielB]

There may be a minimum price/distance/journey time but I already see them for e.g. Vlissingen-Goes. You're not tied to a specific train, but you need to travel within a certain time slot.

There's also a restriction on some stations for the advance PrijsTijdDeal tickets in the Netherlands, for example you can't buy them to Schiphol Airport. However they are sold for trips to Hoofddorp or Amsterdam Zuid, so you could buy a ticket for a longer trip which ends up being cheaper than a ticket to the actual destination.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think advance fares for domestic journeys in Switzerland are a fairly recent introduction.

They have basically come, as they did in the UK, with the advent of fixed formation trains. Previously SBB instead adjusted train lengths to demand, but now most trains are units with only two length options for most purposes (single or double) they need to price people around instead.

 

[High Dyke]

From personal experience, the Netherlands (NS) app is very good. Early bird discounts apply if you travel before 12:00. Even to the point where you ask for a return (double the single fare) and it advises you to book separate singles to save money.

 

[Jim the Jim]

The advantage of the Netherlands is it's small. Would it be appropriate to have PAYG for Hamburg - Frankfurt? Absolutely and categorically not.



If the goal is integrated ticketing then the only geographical determinant of the fare should be origin-destination. The route (as long as it's reasonable) and the operator (as long as it is available) should not enter the equation at all.

If there are different fare regimes that operate within an area then one should override the others. 'National Rail' should adopt city fare structures (flat or zonal) for journeys within those tariff areas. There should one fare for Duivendrecht - Amsterdam Amstel.

There are multiple route options for Finsbury Park - Farringdon. Both stations have notional National Rail and London Underground fare gates but the paid area is inter-linked. The system does not 'know' whether you travelled by tube, national rail, or a weird combination. The back-office algorithm aggregates all the Finsbury Park - Farringdon revenue over the entire day and allocates it to London Underground and National Rail based on calibrated parameters.

What happens on an Sittard - Maastricht journey? There's an approximate 4tph service with NS and Arriva Limburg each providing half the service level. Do you have to read the departure board first before working out whether to touch on yellow or blue readers?

I once missed what would have been an easy Arriva-NS crossplatform interchange because I had to go downstairs to tap out and in with the right operators.

 

[The exile]

That is the crux of it.
If the industry stopped treating anytimes as a penalty fare or a way of milking an ever dwindling amount of people with company credit cards who don't care how much they pay, PAYG would work.

“I only travelled from A to B where the fare is £1.90. How was I to know the “tap off” didn’t register and you’d charge me from A to ZZ which is £190?” PAYG is fine where the maximum fare is reasonably low (say around £20) but not fir higher fares - nor is it compatible with load management through dynamic pricing which, whether we like it or not, is unavoidable on a system which is hopelessly overcrowded at times and underused at others.

 

[renegademaster]

unavoidable on a system which is hopelessly overcrowded at times and underused at others.

A lot of the times this happens is because it's the first off peak service, and the yield management algorithm of advances is very crude and doesn't do a brilliant job of making cheaper the quiet frains

 

[rvdborgt]

From personal experience, the Netherlands (NS) app is very good. Early bird discounts apply if you travel before 12:00. Even to the point where you ask for a return (double the single fare) and it advises you to book separate singles to save money.

EU legislation requires to offer the cheapest available fare. I regard this app behaviour as a workaround for not being able to do that when buying a return.

 

[DanielB]

I once missed what would have been an easy Arriva-NS crossplatform interchange because I had to go downstairs to tap out and in with the right operators.

At which station? There should be poles on the platform to tap out and in (marked with a white cube labeled "overstappen") ovoiding the need to go to the underpass.
Though it may happen that a regional train is changed to a platform not having them, although that's relatively rare.