Thameslink, Wessex and WAGN. Your days are counted.

[Tom C]

Well First now have Great Western, Thames Trains, Wessex Trains, Thameslink, Great Northern Electrics, Scotrail and Hull Trains.

Compare that to National Express who have West Anglia Electrics, Anglia Railways, Great Eastern, Gatwick Express, Midland Mainline and Central Trains.....

Overall National Express have the overall majority especially with two intercity franchises but First are definately catching up......

Whether that is a good thing remains to be seem.......

 

[lev441]

Well as I work for Thameslink here goes........

The current allocation of 319 units has been turned on its head. The Selhurst allocation for Southern has been switched into the Thameslink pool because they have a lower mileage figure so 319/0's and 319/2's are mainly working on Thameslink at the moment where as the 319/3's and a couple of 319/4's have been switched onto Southern diagrams to protect the mileage as quite a few are getting close to needing an exam.

At present not a lot has been said about what is ACTUALLY going to happen when First take over, we have ordered uniform but apart from that we have heard absolutely nothing about staff travel, what First are doing to the job roles or timetables although the customer relation department is set to move to the Great Western office in Plymouth or Penzance (can't remember which) and Friars Bridge Court is to be vacated. We also know that we are going to lose our staff travel on Southern unless you have to use it to work and live 40 miles or more away from your home depot.

First were going to implement a new timetable in December which as going to implement a lot of useful changes but Southern are not going to release as many 319's as First were hoping for (and maybe none at all!!) so at the moment that appears to have been shelved.

It is a very uncertain time for Thameslink staff and I am sure it is the same for WAGN as First have not really said an awful lot so...... just got to wait for the 1st of April.

hmmm i think thameslink are in desparate need of a higher capacity, mainly by extending most rush hour trains to 8 carriages... Why are southern not releasing as many sets as first thought?

 

[Julian G]

how about if FCC pinches some 317s from it's GN part to the TL part to do some Moorgate turns

 

[Tom C]

Thameslink had an agreement with Southern to send some of the 319's back to Thameslink in April however since First took over Southern are less inclined to release the 319's back. Southern have a shortage of suburban units at the minute with the 455's away for refurbishment and the 377's away for modification plus the 456's will be going away soon so they will be relying on the 319's to cover since the Mk1 units have been withdrawn.

This was always going to be a Pandoras box, Thameslink needed the units to maintain a decent timetable when they were transfered in the first place. Now First want to improve the timetable they will be needed more then ever however First no longer have the 100% co-operation of a sister company so it is difficult to see how they are going to improve the timetable.

One thing that has been brought up is the reintroduction of overhead only units to work the 1G services into Moorgate although WAGN and West Anglia are going through a refurbishment program for the 317's so even this is not going to be easy. Somebody at Cauldwell Walk was even mentioning 313's!!!.

 

[Tom B]

Well First now have Great Western, Thames Trains, Wessex Trains, Thameslink, Great Northern Electrics, Scotrail and Hull Trains.

Compare that to National Express who have West Anglia Electrics, Anglia Railways, Great Eastern, Gatwick Express, Midland Mainline and Central Trains.....

Overall National Express have the overall majority especially with two intercity franchises but First are definately catching up......

Whether that is a good thing remains to be seem.......

They said privatisation would be good to break up the BR monopoly... we have a monopoly now, but it's just unofficial and private!

 

[class 313]

Thameslink had an agreement with Southern to send some of the 319's back to Thameslink in April however since First took over Southern are less inclined to release the 319's back. Southern have a shortage of suburban units at the minute with the 455's away for refurbishment and the 377's away for modification plus the 456's will be going away soon so they will be relying on the 319's to cover since the Mk1 units have been withdrawn.

This was always going to be a Pandoras box, Thameslink needed the units to maintain a decent timetable when they were transfered in the first place. Now First want to improve the timetable they will be needed more then ever however First no longer have the 100% co-operation of a sister company so it is difficult to see how they are going to improve the timetable.

One thing that has been brought up is the reintroduction of overhead only units to work the 1G services into Moorgate although WAGN and West Anglia are going through a refurbishment program for the 317's so even this is not going to be easy. Somebody at Cauldwell Walk was even mentioning 313's!!!.

313's on Thameslink!!?? ROFL!!! GOOD LUCK!

 

[Max]

Don't forget Transpennine Express too! Oh well, we still have Northern to ruin things up here

 

[Tom C]

Forget National Express also have LTS.......

I think First will have little choice but to leave Thameslink running as it is with ust the cosmetic tinsel to make it look like the are doing something,

Could have been a great change if only Southern could make its 377's work and the Mk1's could have had just one more year to cover for the 455 & 6 refurbishment.

Still, since when did anything make sense on the railways today.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Then again, we'd have so many more AC EMUs spair had the perfectly fine 312s not been withdrawn so early. All they needed was Central Locking, and they were as good as any unit of the sort of age in service (especially when you consider how much older stuff is still in use). AFAIK they could even have run OPO, and I'm sure they were autherised to work OPO as a single unit anyway, even without CDL, although I don't know if it was ever done. Since the ex FGE units had had a number of doors per coach sealed up anyway, CDL fitting would have been less expensive, and they had been refurbished since privatisation. Of cource, the SRA in their infinite wisdom put pressure for their withdrawal, and wouldn't allow FGE to fit door locking to them. One sensible option that is available, at least for now, is the use of hauled stock. Since the loco an DVT wouldn't have to be fully on the platform, I can't see any reason why full length electric hauled trains couldn't run on any number of routes, freeing up 2 EMUs each. As long as it's not too much of a start-stop run, full length electric hauled sets can maintain EMU timings. The only issue would be clearance for Mk3s and DVTs. The ECML is an ovious choice, since they will be fine there. Sadly Thameslink is out of the question, since they wouldn't be able to run to Moorgate, but St Pancras to Bedford is cleared for 86s, 87s, 90s to run under power, and the whole line at least as far as Wigston is cleared for Mk3s and DVTs (at at least 2 times in the past their have been sunday diversions from Liverpool to St Pancras via Nuneaton and Wigston, with the electric locos powering south of Bedford).
Whatever is done, the situation is even more important since on the GN side, 317s are already being refurbished, and their is talk that 365s will also soon start being refurbished.
Of cource, this does bring back that rumor I heard some time ago that DMUs could be used on certain Great Northern services. What with the DMU cascade from Trans Pennine in the near future, as well as when FGE get rid of the 180s, it does seem feasable. I don't see it as such a good idea as electric loco haulage though, since their are issues with length and capacity, as well as many if not more clearance issues compared to locos, and also performance issues (other than 180s, none of the available DMUs comes close to EMU performance, but 180s are unlikely to be used since a 5 car wouldn't provide the capacity and a 10 car would be too long).
We shall see. I'd put money on the fact that whatever happens, it won't be the most sensible idea.

 

[87015]

Unfortunately all the new franchises seem to be going down the road of service reductions. Agreed the 312s (also more rateable 303s and 310s, ok a bit of asbestos but it never hurt!) could have lasted years with a bit of foresight...Even kept as a warm store (vital for sparkys) to provide say additional peak capacity when required to cover for refurbs etc, but no almost straight to Caerwent or wherever.
Problem with loco-hauled is the high costs of running one or two sets, whereas if a decent sized fleet is established costs are much lower-last years cobblers had substanstial SRA funding, exactly what the new franchises won't be getting.
Personally, i think if the wires are there they should be used-there is an even more accute need for DMU strengthening elsewhere.

As for electric locos at Pancras:
87012 at Bedford http://www.redcow.fotopic.net/p6261775.html
16 at Pancras http://www.redcow.fotopic.net/p6334461.html
There were two weekends afaik, great seven bashing, but the drags were a wash out with 100% duff dross!

 

[Tom C]

Totally agree Chris, the 312's had a good few years left in them and to be honest they were in better shape than the 313's are today. Only problem would be the crew issue, seeing as they have slam doors I would have thought that they would have to have a guard and Thameslink is a DOO railway although that is not to say that temporary positions couldn't be found until new units could be delivered.

I suppose another option would be DC only traction with a revised timetable for trains into Blackfriars or City Thameslink although even then it would be hard to see where they would get the units from.