SWT - Prices (and a whinge)

[purp]

Morning.. lurker makes his first post.

Just started using SWT again after around 4 years to find they have't changed one bit. The Reading - Waterloo line is still either as hot as the Sahara or as cold as my ex. Yey!

Well, I'm travelling from a station which isn't barriered but has one machine and one kiosk. I didn't have time to pick up a ticket as the queues were 15 people deep so as I had a meeting at 8.30, I thought I'd take the rap and pay the £20; or I would be lucky enough that the guard would do his rounds and offer me a ticket (as he often does to most passengers without one).

This time around he didn't. So I sucked it up and approached the guard at my destination who, as expected, told me I had to pay a penalty fare. However, they stated it was £25 - totally incorrect and was obviously not a revenue protection employee who couldn't charge me the penalty anyway, so I got off lightly there.

After the they'd given me the little chat I've seen them give to people in the past they then told me to stick my card in the machine and enter my pin... but the screen said £6.. which confused me somewhat. They then said, "Next time you won't have an excuse..." and basically let me off and charged me for a standard day return at that price.

Now here's the more confusing part... my ticket normally costs DOUBLE that... so how, when I reached my destination, was I only charged the lesser amount? I checked with the guard and was told that that was the price according to their machine for a peak return from my station to the destination.

Now my question; how can I get this price every time without risking paying the penalty fare? I'm ever so happy to only pay £6 a day rather than the £170+ per month for the season ticket...?

 

[yorkie]

Erm, what station is it?

 

[dan_atki]

Now my question; how can I get this price every time without risking paying the penalty fare? I'm ever so happy to only pay £6 a day rather than the £170+ per month for the season ticket...?

Firstly, welcome to the forum!

On the top line of the ticket it will have the type you were sold and the second line any discount applied to the ticket. When you next buy a ticket from a ticket office ask for
'a [discount type - if applicable showing appropriate railcard], [ticket type - as stated on ticket], [from - if this is different to where you are purchasing the ticket] to [destination station].'

If you are charged more than £6 tell the clerk (politely) that you were sold a ticket for £6 once (maybe even helpful if you retain that ticket to show them), and they'll see if it exists on the system. If it doesn't then it could be possible that you were sold an invalid ticket for the journey.

If you could state the time of service and where you were travelling from and to, then we'd be able to help you out more

On another note, if you approach the guard as they stand on the platform waiting to dispatch the train where you get on and ask them (before you do actually board) if they'd sell you a ticket then most of the time the answer is a 'yes' (something I've just noticed with SWT guards).

 

[yorkie]

Just had a thought. SWT inner suburban guards are "non commercial", and I think the Reading-London route counts as that?

 

[purp]

Route was Martin's Heron - Feltham leaving at 7.05, the same route and time I've travelled for the past two weeks. The price I'm normally charged is £11.10 and this ticket was £6.60. Both tickets are identical, STD DAY RETURN. This is definitely an adult ticket with no marked discount.

The £11.10 tickets I've purchased previously have been from the clerk and ticket machine and are "any route permitted" as is the £6.60 one I purchased from Feltham.

Oh, and I've been a train commuter for 8 years and have never come across this bizarre "different price from different station" malarky. I've often purchased tickets in advance for the same day from another station (e.g. Basingstoke - Surbiton, purchased in Reading) which have always been the same price, regardless of the station.

 

[dan_atki]

Just had a thought. SWT inner suburban guards are "non commercial", and I think the Reading-London route counts as that?

That raises an interesting point about the non-commerciality.

Let me take an example from out of the area for a second - particularly the Southampton local services.

Say I'm travelling from St Denys to Southampton Airport Parkway on the 2237, but the railcard discount I wish to have applied to my ticket does not exist on the machines. Both ticket offices are closed at this time but both stations have a ticket machine (I'm sure this scenario could apply to some suburban routes in London). Now if the guard on the train was 'non-commercial' (they aren't and will happily sell me the ticket when asked) and as such could not sell me a ticket for my journey would I be expected to purchase a full price Standard ticket from the machine and then write to SWT customer services as the guard could not issue me the ticket?

Route was Martin's Heron - Feltham leaving at 7.05, the same route and time I've travelled for the past two weeks. The price I'm normally charged is £11.10 and this ticket was £6.60. Both tickets are identical, STD DAY RETURN. This is definitely an adult ticket with no marked discount.

The £11.10 tickets I've purchased previously have been from the clerk and ticket machine and are "any route permitted" as is the £6.60 one I purchased from Feltham.

As is the case with almost all SWT SDR tickets the price is pretty much double towards London then it is away from London. This is 'because there is a bigger demand for services into London than away' (quotes as this issue has been raised with SWT several times in the past) so it costs more from Martins Heron - Feltham (SDR £11.10) than from Feltham - Martins Heron (SDR £6.60).

 

[purp]

Could someone kindly explain the difference between commercial and non-commercial guards please?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Completely understandable, however the £6.60 ticket(s) I was given was a return FROM Martin's Heron to Feltham, not Feltham to Martin's Heron (which would be useless to me).

As is the case with pretty much ALL SWT SDR tickets the price is pretty much double towards London then it is away from London. This is 'because there is a bigger demand for services into London than away' (quotes as this issue has been raised with SWT several times in the past) so it costs more from Martins Heron - Feltham (SDR £11.10) than from Feltham - Martins Heron (SDR £6.60).

 

[dan_atki]

Could someone kindly explain the difference between commercial and non-commercial guards please?

Unless I'm much mistaken a commercial guard is one allowed to sell tickets on board the train on top of his duties as a guard (such as dispatch), whereas a non-commercial guard is not allowed (and therefore I think would not have any ticket issuing equipment with them).

Completely understandable, however the £6.60 ticket(s) I was given was a return FROM Martin's Heron to Feltham, not Feltham to Martin's Heron (which would be useless to me).

Now that is odd and I can offer no explanation for it at this time. Do you still have the tickets at all? Maybe you could upload a scan or a picture of them to give us an idea of what's going on.

 

[purp]

On closer inspection, you're correct. I have been sold a return from Feltham. My apologies.

This now raises the problem that when I try and use my outbound ticket (Feltham-Martin's Heron) the barrier is going to reject it as, correct me if I'm wrong, it will have passed the 90 minute validity period when I leave at 6pm this evening.

I did mention the price difference to the guard at the station who told me the ticket was correct. Now, how do I go about avoiding paying an additional fare to get home when my ticket is rejected?

 

[dan_atki]

I did mention the price difference to the guard at the station who told me the ticket was correct. Now, how do I go about avoiding paying an additional fare to get home when my ticket is rejected?

I'd assume you still have the Feltham to Martins Heron portion of your ticket remaining (any barriers at Feltham - if they exist - would reject this part of your ticket).

As far as I am aware there is no time limit on NR tickets for working barriers - tickets I buy days in advance still work the barriers.

However if it doesn't work the gates then show the person next to them - a requirement of having barriers is that they must be manned at all times they are in operation.

If, in the unlikely event, they challenge you about the ticket say you asked for a return from Martins Heron - Feltham and that's what you were given. You were in a rush and you didn't check that you'd been sold the incorrect ticket.

It is then at their discretion whether they let you through or excess your ticket by £4.50 upto the correct £11.10 fare.

 

[yorkie]

On closer inspection, you're correct. I have been sold a return from Feltham. My apologies.

This now raises the problem that when I try and use my outbound ticket (Feltham-Martin's Heron) the barrier is going to reject it as, correct me if I'm wrong, it will have passed the 90 minute validity period when I leave at 6pm this evening.

What 90 minute validity period? :???:

I did mention the price difference to the guard at the station who told me the ticket was correct. Now, how do I go about avoiding paying an additional fare to get home when my ticket is rejected?

I am confident it won't be rejected!

Strictly speaking you are not supposed to use a RTN portion before an OUT portion, but hardly anyone will pull you up for that*! and, really, they have no way of knowing that you used the RTN portion first. Certainly, the barriers will not realise that!

* Only time I've witnessed this is someone using an already-stamped Outward portion of a SOR several days into the ticket's validity. The guard asked to see the Return portion but the passenger could not produce it, giving some pathetic excuse about he was given the ticket from his work and they only gave him the outward portion. He was chinged for a new ticket.

 

[purp]

Fantastic; thanks for the replies and sorry for my bad observation. Tickets are rarely checked on the route to MAO as the trains are so full and I'm yet to see anyone checking on exit at MAO. I'll be sure to let you know...

What 90 minute validity period?

I've read it somewhere, but after inspection of the CoC there is no such rule, only stating that the outbound portion must be used before the return.

Wish me luck!

 

[yorkie]

Is it an LU rule? That could be it!

Good luck

 

[dan_atki]

Is it an LU rule? That could be it!

Isn't so much an LU rule as a Croydon Tramlink rule - their singles are only valid for 90 minutes from the time of issue on the ticket:

Tramlink Single Validity For 90 minutes only from the time of issue stated on the ticket on the day of issue.

and Oyster validations are valid for 70 minutes:

6.2.4 Touching your Oyster card on a Tramlink reader validates your card for travel. The validation lasts for 70 minutes and is valid for a single journey only from the tramstop where the validation was made, either to your destination or to a stop where you change trams to finish your journey.

 

[purp]

Ah that's probably it; used to get the tram to Wombleton.

 

[Oracle]

We have to go cap in hand to the Guard from Ashurst New Forest BUTTTT there are numerous occasions when their machine have ceased to function and so they either say pay at Central (at the excess window if changing to XC say) or wait until they can get a replacement machine to be dropped on at Central, Parkway, Winchester or wherever. They are extremely nice about it. Perhaps because we seek them out? However on occasions the Guard is a relief and has no machine!

 

[purp]

Everything went OK FYI. Ticket barrier at Feltham accepted the ticket and as usual, no guards checked on the route nor at MAO. I then went home, had a pizza and laughed about the whole gig.

Moral of the story, buy a damn ticket at the station.

However, I did get a 1/2 price ticket for my troubles!

 

[Broken Viking]

Hail All!
Hopefully not too old a thread to dig up (Found this via a Google search for SWT fare practices) but after reading this thread through, I do wonder about a few things...Mainly relating to SWT of course, but also for other ATOC companies that I use on my longer journeys:

1. Tickets heading towards London are - As this thread has already mentioned - Often more expensive than those heading away from London...And presumably the same structure exists for other larger cities like Birmingham and Manchester. Yet - Given that presenting only the relevant half of ones ticket is usually enough for most on-train Guards - Would using a return in reverse formation (I.E: RTN half before OUT half) to/from stations without barriers be a workable way of cutting fares down on regular travel?
   (Also - Though it's a plainly unorthodox technique - Would it be considered a minor ticketing infraction, or a full and actionable breach of the Law and/or applicable bylaws? :?)
   .
2. Following on from the previous point: I've occasionally (And legitimateley) ticketed my journeys in reverse by buying my return ticket for travel from the destination station, using the OUT portion to go home in the early morning, and then using the RTN portion to go back later that night...A technique that I find very useful when working night-shifts (So I'm putting the "away" end of my ticket in rest time, as opposed to having it inside working time).
   Switching this to day working, would it be cheaper to buy a normal peak day return as most do, or insted use the same "reverse" pattern with Open/Saver Returns, or any other ticket type that's valid for a next-day return?
   .
3. Why don't SWT (And other TOCs for that matter) train all of their Guards as commercial staff? I am well aware that a Guards primary role is ensuring the safety of the train, it's passengers and crew...But if commercial Guards can perform both roles safely, then surely it'd make more sense for SWT to have all Guards trained as commercials...Especially where revenue protection is concerned.
   Am I right there, or is there a reason for this that I'm failing to spot?

And as far as boarding an SWT service without a ticket goes: I've done this several times before without encountering problems or Penalty Fares, but I've always sought permission from the Guard before boarding as someone else mentioned above.

In addition, I've found that the same practice seems to be accepted on FGW Link services as well - Rather fortunate, considering neither of the self-service machines at Blackwater ever seem to be working (Or are selling the type of ticket that I'm after) whenever I go down there... :?

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[yorkie]

Using RTN before OUT can represent savings. Strictly speaking it's not allowed. Barriers won't tell you off, but on-train staff may.

As for the ticket machines at Blackwater - they can't refuse you travel without a ticket if the machines don't work.