SWR Delay Repay Appeal.

[Mark J]

Received this today....

Firstly the Journey was SWR, not GWR and was on 7th Sept, not 7th Oct.

Need to go over all the details once again, as clearly original journey details not passed over.

Think I'm going to give up on this. It is getting ridiculously complex (and time consuming) all for a couple of pounds refund.

 

[AlterEgo]

I can just about understand the viewpoint that a TOC that delays a passenger isn't liable if another TOC has delayed a passenger earlier on in their journey and is therefore liable for the delay to the whole journey. That rule is, of course, only there to make sure passengers don't receive two lots of compensation for one delayed journey. It is not there, in my view, to prevent passengers waiving any liability owed to them by TOC A and claiming validly against TOC B. That interpretation leads to absurdity: there could be two passengers in the OP's position wanting to get from Gunnersbury to Earley, one of whom knows about the strike and sets out with the intention of walking to Richmond, the other of whom only finds out about the strike when they get to Gunnersbury. They both do the same thing, make the same journey by rail and suffer the same delay after Richmond. But according to some, the second person (which is the OP) isn't entitled to any compensation because they were delayed twice rather than once. That is, I'm afraid, palpably ridiculous.

Passengers don't get to waive liability. In both cases you mention the liability is with TOC A, as long as both passengers intended to take TOC A and would have done so other than the service disruption. You don't get to choose TOC A isn't responsible unless it was always your intention to break your journey and TOC A's disruption was immaterial to that decision.

Of course if TOC A paid double the amount of TOC B I doubt we'd be having this discussion and everyone would be claiming off them instead. I think it is as simple as that - maximising the scheme, and saying so, unwisely, in public. Believe me I do not care for the absurd system or the train companies involved and happily watch some of them come a cropper in Disputes.

I think I will bow out of the thread here as neither of us will convince the other and I accept my advice is being given from the perspective that people may hold me personally to it and quote it back at me - but if we ever meet at a forum event, I'll buy you a drink and have a proper discussion about it!

 

[Mark J]

I can just about understand the viewpoint that a TOC that delays a passenger isn't liable if another TOC has delayed a passenger earlier on in their journey and is therefore liable for the delay to the whole journey. That rule is, of course, only there to make sure passengers don't receive two lots of compensation for one delayed journey. It is not there, in my view, to prevent passengers waiving any liability owed to them by TOC A and claiming validly against TOC B. That interpretation leads to absurdity: there could be two passengers in the OP's position wanting to get from Gunnersbury to Earley, one of whom knows about the strike and sets out with the intention of walking to Richmond, the other of whom only finds out about the strike when they get to Gunnersbury. They both do the same thing, make the same journey by rail and suffer the same delay after Richmond. But according to some, the second person (which is the OP) isn't entitled to any compensation because they were delayed twice rather than once. That is, I'm afraid, palpably ridiculous.

I was aware of the Overground being out of service on that day. The District Line to Gunnersbury was the official replacement, followed by a RRB to Acton Central.

What I WAS NOT aware of was the Tube Strike on the District Line in the evening.

So with the District Line being out, there was no way of getting back to Richmond by rail.

There was no RRB offered, plus I was not familiar with bus services in that area, so opted to walk back.

I was back at Richmond in time for the offending SWR service.

In hindsight, I wish I had just claimed for Richmond to Earley, it would of saved all this palava and 'pass the parcel' of blame by the TOCS.

 

[davp]

I can just about understand the viewpoint that a TOC that delays a passenger isn't liable if another TOC has delayed a passenger earlier on in their journey and is therefore liable for the delay to the whole journey. That rule is, of course, only there to make sure passengers don't receive two lots of compensation for one delayed journey. It is not there, in my view, to prevent passengers waiving any liability owed to them by TOC A and claiming validly against TOC B. That interpretation leads to absurdity: there could be two passengers in the OP's position wanting to get from Gunnersbury to Earley, one of whom knows about the strike and sets out with the intention of walking to Richmond, the other of whom only finds out about the strike when they get to Gunnersbury. They both do the same thing, make the same journey by rail and suffer the same delay after Richmond. But according to some, the second person (which is the OP) isn't entitled to any compensation because they were delayed twice rather than once. That is, I'm afraid, palpably ridiculous.

I can understand both sides of this discussion, but I think by making your own arrangements for one part of your journey you could argue to SWR that you broke your journey at Gunnersbury and restarted at Richmond having made your own arrangements to get there. You weren't delayed to Richmond because of this, or if you were you are not claiming for this, therefore they should treat your claim as starting at Richmond. It sounds as if the online forms aren't really designed for this type of situation so an email might get a better result.

I had a slightly complex claim with Northern which they declined twice and in the end wrote them an email explaining and they paid out and apologised. Whether it was worth it, as here, is another matter.

 

[redreni]

Passengers don't get to waive liability. In both cases you mention the liability is with TOC A, as long as both passengers intended to take TOC A and would have done so other than the service disruption. You don't get to choose TOC A isn't responsible unless it was always your intention to break your journey and TOC A's disruption was immaterial to that decision.

Of course if TOC A paid double the amount of TOC B I doubt we'd be having this discussion and everyone would be claiming off them instead. I think it is as simple as that - maximising the scheme, and saying so, unwisely, in public. Believe me I do not care for the absurd system or the train companies involved and happily watch some of them come a cropper in Disputes.

I think I will bow out of the thread here as neither of us will convince the other and I accept my advice is being given from the perspective that people may hold me personally to it and quote it back at me - but if we ever meet at a forum event, I'll buy you a drink and have a proper discussion about it!

Fair enough!

 

[Mark J]

I also have another issue with SWR.

Coming back from Southampton.

Delays by SWR (at both Southampton and connecting train at Winchester to Basingstoke) caused me to catch the second to last service from Basingstoke to Reading.

That service itself arrived in two minutes late.

Even if it had arrived on time, it would of been under the seven minute minimum connection time at Reading.

As it happened I had just 3½ minutes to get from the northern platforms of Reading, to the SWR platforms.

As a result, I missed my final connection for the night, which would of resulted in having to double back from Wokingham.

Even if had of caught this service, the total delay would of been around 1hr 30 mins.

So if a delay causes you to miss the final service of the night, what level of delay do you claim for?

120 mins+?

 

[redreni]

I also have another issue with SWR.

Coming back from Southampton.

Delays by SWR (at both Southampton and connecting train at Winchester to Basingstoke) caused me to catch the second to last service from Basingstoke to Reading.

That service itself arrived in two minutes late.

Even if it had arrived on time, it would of been under the seven minute minimum connection time at Reading.

As it happened I had just 3½ minutes to get from the northern platforms of Reading, to the SWR platforms.

As a result, I missed my final connection for the night, which would of resulted in doubling back from Wokingham.

Even if had of caught this, the delay would of been around 1hr 30 mins.

So if a delay causes you to miss the final service of the night, what level of delay do you claim for?

120 mins+?

It'd be helpful if you could tabulate your intended and actual journeys.

 

[Haywain]

So if a delay causes you to miss the final service of the night, what level of delay do you claim for?

That depends on what time you reach the final station on your planned journey. If you have missed the last connection of the day the train company* should assist you in getting to your destination by providing alternative transport such as a taxi.

*That's any train company in a position to do so, so in this case likely to be the train company that is the station operator at Reading.

 

[Mark J]

That depends on what time you reach the final station on your planned journey. If you have missed the last connection of the day the train company* should assist you in getting to your destination by providing alternative transport such as a taxi.

*That's any train company in a position to do so, so in this case likely to be the train company that is the station operator at Reading.

So what happens if you decide to walk instead.

It is 45 minutes walk from Reading station to where I live.

Taxi on a Saturday night in Reading. The Taxi queues are long outside the station, gone 11pm.

 

[Haywain]

So what happens if you decide to walk instead.

At that point you have effectively abandoned your journey, so you claim for the delay in arriving at Reading.

 

[Watershed]

So what happens if you decide to walk instead.

It is 45 minutes walk from Reading station to where I live.

Taxi on a Saturday night in Reading. The Taxi queues are long outside the station, gone 11pm.

You claim based on the delay in arriving at your destination station - or the time you would have reached it, if you'd gone there rather than home. Looks like Earley is roughly an hour's walk from Reading so I'd say put 15 mins after the time you got home.