Stations that really ought to be request stops...

[Tomnick]

Advising the Driver that someone wants to board would presumably involve the Signalman stopping the train at the signal in rear and waiting for the Driver to come on the SPT - potential for some significant delays, especially on a route with request stops aplenty. You'd also have to advise the Signalman before he clears that signal in rear, which could be some time before the booked time at the request stop.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

And what about deaf passengers? How would the phone work in that instance?

 

[Ibex]

I suppose they could have something like a 'Stop' button on the platform where you simply press the button if you want the train to stop, and something like 'PAX' lights up on the signal before the station, similar to an Off Indicator. If that makes sense. Obviously that isn't very helpful on branches with no little to no signalling.

Anyway I rather think Cheddington during the off-peak hours should be a request stop. Perhaps Longcross too. I always thought Brundall Gardens was a request stop but my trains through there in my last Anglia visit both stopped there and nobody got on or off either time.

 

[Ivo]

I suppose they could have something like a 'Stop' button on the platform where you simply press the button if you want the train to stop, and something like 'PAX' lights up on the signal before the station, similar to an Off Indicator. If that makes sense. Obviously that isn't very helpful on branches with no little to no signalling.

Anyway I rather think Cheddington during the off-peak hours should be a request stop. Perhaps Longcross too. I always thought Brundall Gardens was a request stop but my trains through there in my last Anglia visit both stopped there and nobody got on or off either time.

Longcross just wouldn't work as a request stop. The services through there are just too busy and too "important". Now, if we use a different approach, we could extend the Camberley services from Ascot, and have hourly calls at Longcross. The main reason Longcross performs poorly is because SWT constantly change the calling pattern. The 1242 from Reading and the 1250 from Waterloo stop there; otherwise, it changes with every timetable!

Also, I notice that no-one has flagged my Battlesbridge suggestion. Having never been on the line through Battlesbridge, I can't tell you how busy each journey is, but it has only a few thousand travellers each year and something like 40 journeys a day. On the flip side, I have been over the (narrow) bridge there enough to know that it is quiet. I have never seen a passenger there in my life. Mind you, I would have thought that an hourly bus to Southend an Chelmsford would suffice... if it still existed.

As for the "stop" idea, they use a similar system on some Metros, which works really well. I first encountered this idea in Bonn in May '03, and thought that it was completely ridiculous. But each time the train would stop at a station, find the platform deserted, and then accelerate immediately. The obvious issue of "why not merely slow to a crawl" aside, the idea never seemed to fail whenever I travelled on it. And the 66 route (don't know if that number still applies; it linked Bonn to Siegburg for the Cologne-Frankfurt ICE route) was always very busy. Yet I distinctly remember one station from the southern end being a minor halt, only a few hundred metres from the terminus. Such a station was convenient - and easy to skip without any trouble. Back on course, the driver could be equipped with a mobile device that could switch off the "Stop" sign on the platform, just like a remote.

As for us lot, we could always erect a large sign with big red letters saying,

DO NOT STOP HERE. WE DO NOT INTEND TO TRAVEL AT THIS TIME.

 

[scrapy]

It would make sense for Styal to be a request stop on the hourly Crewe to Manchester Picc via Manchester Airport service. There is no point in every train stopping as most probably wouldn't have anybody getting on or off, however there is some slack in the timetable to enable services to stop if needed. Towards Crewe the train usually arrives at least three minutes early at Wilmslow an towards Manchester it has a 14 minute wait at the airport.

 

[CarterUSM]

This is getting rather complicated. How about keeping things as they are?!! Suburban should generally stop everywhere in my book, not so sure about rural services, important in a social sense of course, well established request stops really shouldn't present a problem to anyone though, staff or passengers.:roll:

 

[142094]

Advising the Driver that someone wants to board would presumably involve the Signalman stopping the train at the signal in rear and waiting for the Driver to come on the SPT - potential for some significant delays, especially on a route with request stops aplenty. You'd also have to advise the Signalman before he clears that signal in rear, which could be some time before the booked time at the request stop.

If the train has an in cab radio, that could be used. Or the signaller could contact the TOC control, who in turn could contact the guard and then the guard can tell the driver to stop. Bit of a hassle, but perhaps in future it could be done.

And what about deaf passengers? How would the phone work in that instance?

Obviously wouldn't work in that situation, but you could then say under operation, what about blind people who cannot see the train approaching? Deaf people could always phone ahead in advance for assistance from the on board staff.

 

[Z12XE]

Also, I notice that no-one has flagged my Battlesbridge suggestion. Having never been on the line through Battlesbridge, I can't tell you how busy each journey is, but it has only a few thousand travellers each year and something like 40 journeys a day.

Probably one of those cases where its not needed - there's a huge turnaround at Southminster on the off peak so there's no operational reason to skip it if no one also gets on.

Also this line when in 4-car formation is DOO and RPIs often only travel over short sections making being able to request a stop difficult.

 

[Tomnick]

If the train has an in cab radio, that could be used. Or the signaller could contact the TOC control, who in turn could contact the guard and then the guard can tell the driver to stop. Bit of a hassle, but perhaps in future it could be done.

As the chap above says, it's getting rather more complicated than just signalling clearly to the Driver - which works ok anyway, doesn't it? I don't think regularly calling the Driver on the NRN for request stops would be too acceptable; it might not be reliable anyway, as it'd almost certainly be at the bottom of the Signalman's priorities (the Cambrian Coast Signalmen would probably gain a couple of grades through the extra telephone workload!). And you'd still need to be on the platform in good time to make sure the message was passed through the whole chain, or to stop the message 'not to stop' being passed on, or whatever.

 

[northwichcat]

Instead of flagging down the train when it arrives, why isn't their a phone linked to the signaller, who can then tell the driver to stop at that station? Would cut out confusion over what to do.

Wouldn't the signaller then have to stop the train at the signal box to tell the driver?

And what if the signal box is after the station will the signaller be waving to reverse?

 

[MrC]

Hmm, all this seems like overkill to me. If a station is quiet enough to warrant being a request stop then it's probably enough for the driver to stop if he/she sees anyone on the platform.

 

[Greenback]

Signallers should not be involved in taking messages for request stops! They have enough to do! Isn't it working fine at the moment?

 

[Ivo]

Also, I notice that no-one has flagged my Battlesbridge suggestion. Having never been on the line through Battlesbridge, I can't tell you how busy each journey is, but it has only a few thousand travellers each year and something like 40 journeys a day.

Probably one of those cases where its not needed - there's a huge turnaround at Southminster on the off peak so there's no operational reason to skip it if no one also gets on.

Also this line when in 4-car formation is DOO and RPIs often only travel over short sections making being able to request a stop difficult.

That is a fair point, but the Southminster route could, in theory, be run from Wickford with only one unit. I'm not suggesting this, because it would cause problems at peak times, but one of NXEA's 156s could run the route off-peak, with each station interval being afout four minutes and having total layover time per hour of about 12 minutes if done properly. I would advise having most at Wickford for the London/Southend connections, and maybe only three at Southminster. Run like this, Battlesbridge could become a request stop. And serving the other stations would become so much simpler.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think the comments about it getting more and more complicated are spot on.

The present system works and it's simple. There is also no technology to go wrong...


The first principle of business is "Keep it simple".




Meanwhile, my suggestion for a station that should be a request stop is Swale on the Sheerness branch. It's in the middle of nowhere - on all my trips on the branch I have never once seen anyone get on or off a train there. Does anyone actually use it?!

 

[CarterUSM]

For the record, I nominate Breich. This discussion really has degenerated too much though, no offence intended of course.

 

[Ivo]

I think the comments about it getting more and more complicated are spot on.

The present system works and it's simple. There is also no technology to go wrong...


The first principle of business is "Keep it simple".




Meanwhile, my suggestion for a station that should be a request stop is Swale on the Sheerness branch. It's in the middle of nowhere - on all my trips on the branch I have never once seen anyone get on or off a train there. Does anyone actually use it?!

I thought Swale was a request stop?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There is no "note x" ( which usually denotes a request stop ) by it in the current NRT ( I buy the TSO version - can't cope with the small print of the Middleton version! ); is there anyone in the Sittingbourne / Sheerness area on here who could check the current status of Swale please?

Last time I went up the branch was about 5 years ago; pretty sure the train stopped there both ways on that occasion.

 

[boing_uk]

The one I would like to see as a request stop would be Moss Side on the south Fylde line.

Of course that would mean changing the operation of the AHB level crossing there, which is currently a STOP - Press TRTS operation coming from Lytham. Although it would be nice to get rid of the 20mph restriction coming from Kirkham.. which I can only presume is there for the crossing, which itsself is 35mph?

 

[Z12XE]

but one of NXEA's 156s could run the route off-peak, with each station interval being afout four minutes and having total layover time per hour of about 12 minutes if done properly.

What a very odd idea that is brining in a DMU on an electrified route - epsecially with the current situation with the DMU vehicles availbility, and that in the Off Peak there are endless amounts of EMU units idle - the DMU would need a guard on, rather than just a roving RPI.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I thought Swale was a request stop?

I dont think it is - wasn't last time I did that line.

There were plans back in the SRA days to reduce it to a parly service - 1 train per week etc but nothing ever came of it

 

[TDK]

Well they are timed to stop so if they do I wouldn't do much harm!

It would become clear that the person has a camera in His/Her hand...

I think you will find they are not timed to stop and if they do they lose time especially on the HOW line
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To sum this all up, any station that is used lightly should be an option for a request stop for instance the guard knows that there are not any passengers to alight, tells the driver, the driver then approaches the platform so as they can stop if nessessary, job done. For the record the current protocol for request stops for the company I used to work for was for the guard to inform the driver of any pax that need to alight at any request stops if there is not any one to alight the driver will approach such a station at a speed so thay can stop, if no one is visible the driver will continue. If a driver approaches too fast and cannot stop this will be classed as either a fail to call or a station over run, not good for the drivers CV, to get anyone else involved such as signallers, control etc is not vaible and to have a warning prior to the station is also not viable, you cold imagine what the kids would do with such a button.

 

[Greenback]

I think you will find they are not timed to stop and if they do they lose time especially on the HOW line
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To sum this all up, any station that is used lightly should be an option for a request stop for instance the guard knows that there are not any passengers to alight, tells the driver, the driver then approaches the platform so as they can stop if nessessary, job done. For the record the current protocol for request stops for the company I used to work for was for the guard to inform the driver of any pax that need to alight at any request stops if there is not any one to alight the driver will approach such a station at a speed so thay can stop, if no one is visible the driver will continue. If a driver approaches too fast and cannot stop this will be classed as either a fail to call or a station over run, not good for the drivers CV, to get anyone else involved such as signallers, control etc is not vaible and to have a warning prior to the station is also not viable, you cold imagine what the kids would do with such a button.

Excellent post, says all that needs to be said, I reckon!

 

[466.networkers]

There is no "note x" ( which usually denotes a request stop ) by it in the current NRT ( I buy the TSO version - can't cope with the small print of the Middleton version! ); is there anyone in the Sittingbourne / Sheerness area on here who could check the current status of Swale please?

Last time I went up the branch was about 5 years ago; pretty sure the train stopped there both ways on that occasion.

Sheerness resident and regular user of the Sheerness Branch here ....

Swale was made a request stop in the December 2006 timetable (when the 466s replaced the 508s) but Southeastern soon changed that as they were fined something like £5,000 every time they didn't stop at Swale, whether no-one was actually there or not!

In the current timetable, and the new one from May 23, Swale will still not be a request stop.

Hope this helps.

 

[The Planner]

I think you will find they are not timed to stop and if they do they lose time especially on the HOW line

They are timed to stop, just without a dwell time. Therefore the schedule allows for braking and acceleration but not a dwell so the loss of time is mitigated to an extent.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thank you Ryan - I have to say I seriously wonder why there is a station at Swale at all? It's the archtypical station in an empty field really isn't it?

 

[466.networkers]

Thank you Ryan - I have to say I seriously wonder why there is a station at Swale at all? It's the archtypical station in an empty field really isn't it?

Swale is (or was) mainly used by people who work at the nearby Ridham Docks and/or the Kingsferry Bridge, or to access Iwade or the River Swale.

 

[Lampshade]

The one I would like to see as a request stop would be Moss Side on the south Fylde line.

Of course that would mean changing the operation of the AHB level crossing there, which is currently a STOP - Press TRTS operation coming from Lytham. Although it would be nice to get rid of the 20mph restriction coming from Kirkham.. which I can only presume is there for the crossing, which itsself is 35mph?

That's a good call, Moss Side only gets marginally more passengers than Salwick and that only has three trains a day hock:

 

[TDK]

They are timed to stop, just without a dwell time. Therefore the schedule allows for braking and acceleration but not a dwell so the loss of time is mitigated to an extent.

Yes as quoted not timed to stop, yes, timed to decellerate and then accelerate but not to stop, this in turn adds about 1m per station with 8 request stops that is 8 minutes late, I can remembr when I worked trains on the HOW line and if I had requests I would always be late at Craven Arms and have to give way to a flyer that stopped at Church Stretton where the HOW service did not so as if it was on time would not hold the flyer up if let out in front of it!.