St Pancras Departure Boards

[londonmidland]

EMR still do not have automated announcements on their platforms? I do not use these platforms much but i presumed they would have added them by now? That is absolutely shocking that such a major London Terminal station is still without announcements for these EMR services! I hope that EMR will add them soon!

It's rather embarrassing that when they do make manual announcements, it sounds substandard at best. Many a time the announcements will cut out halfway through or will have feedback cutting in and out. Sounds very unprofessional.

It's probably just EMR unwilling to cough up the money for the auto P.A system to be installed at St. Pancras.

 

[duffield]

It's rather embarrassing that when they do make manual announcements, it sounds substandard at best. Many a time the announcements will cut out halfway through or will have feedback cutting in and out. Sounds very unprofessional.

It's probably just EMR unwilling to cough up the money for the auto P.A system to be installed at St. Pancras.

Off-topic, but I've noticed the EMR on-train announcements seem to have deteriorated recently - ear-splittingly loud, inaudibly quiet, distorted, cut-off part way through... I don't remember this being a frequent issue a few years ago.

Maybe the 222s are on essential/safety-critical maintenance only ahead of the class 810 introduction, so the PA systems are neglected?

 

[BJames]

Off-topic, but I've noticed the EMR on-train announcements seem to have deteriorated recently - ear-splittingly loud, inaudibly quiet, distorted, cut-off part way through... I don't remember this being a frequent issue a few years ago.

Maybe the 222s are on essential/safety-critical maintenance only ahead of the class 810 introduction, so the PA systems are neglected?

It's very hit or miss on 222s even during the same journey. Some units particularly worse than others but a lot of faults. Many times I've strained to hear what the TM is saying only for all of the announcements for the rest of the journey to be completely fine.

 

[stadler]

It's rather embarrassing that when they do make manual announcements, it sounds substandard at best. Many a time the announcements will cut out halfway through or will have feedback cutting in and out. Sounds very unprofessional.

It's probably just EMR unwilling to cough up the money for the auto P.A system to be installed at St. Pancras.

The crazy thing is that EMR do not want to spend money installing automated announcements at St Pancras but yet they have been happy to spend money replacing the Acapela Rachael (Text To Speech) announcements with the proper Atos Worldline (Anne) announcements at lots of small rural minor stations with very low usage. You would think that St Pancras would be their priority. It is the most major station (and probably the busiest too) on their network.

Off-topic, but I've noticed the EMR on-train announcements seem to have deteriorated recently - ear-splittingly loud, inaudibly quiet, distorted, cut-off part way through... I don't remember this being a frequent issue a few years ago.

Maybe the 222s are on essential/safety-critical maintenance only ahead of the class 810 introduction, so the PA systems are neglected?

The class 222 automated announcements have to be the most unreliable automated announcements in the UK. Since the class 222 were introduced in the early 2000s i have taken 208 journeys on this class. On only 4 of these 208 journeys the automated announcements have been working. All 4 occasions were in MM days. EMT and EMR have both given up on their class 222 automated announcements. Lets hope that the class 810 have proper working reliable automated announcements when they enter service.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Although the style/clarity/placing of information displays is very important (viz this and other threads), even more important is what information is displayed.

The fact that some major stations no longer have any obvious displays showing the next dozen or so departures [more or fewer depending on the scale of operations at the station, of course] in chronological order, including the places called at in each case, is absurd. (A massive list of "next fastest to..." is no substitute; nor is a list of destinations without showing where the train calls.)

[I realise that StP, being in essence several stations in the same building, is a special case here.]

Similarly, it's important to have an arrivals display too, giving platforms both for recent arrivals and ones in the next while.

Especially - but not only - for non-regular users, both proper departure boards and proper arrivals boards are absolutely essential for making the system welcoming and easy to use. Frankly it's a scandal that some stations are without these.

 

[londonmidland]

The crazy thing is that EMR do not want to spend money installing automated announcements at St Pancras but yet they have been happy to spend money replacing the Acapela Rachael (Text To Speech) announcements with the proper Atos Worldline (Anne) announcements at lots of small rural minor stations with very low usage. You would think that St Pancras would be their priority. It is the most major station (and probably the busiest too) on their network.

I messaged EMR on this regard and they directed me to Network Rail to raise the issue with, as they manage the station. Though it begs the question, how come South Eastern have automated announcements if this is the case?

Out of interest, I know Anne replaced Rachael at Skegness but I haven’t heard her at any other smaller stations? They are still with TTS.

 

[JaJaWa]

St Pancras is managed by "Network Rail (High Speed)", subcontracted by HS1 Ltd. I'm surprised it's legal for EMR to have no announcement system there, that's no good for the visually impaired.

 

[dosxuk]

The acoustics in the EMR side of St Pancras are bad enough as it is without an auto announcer going off every few minutes as well. The existing station wide announcements seem to be turned up to 20 to try and cut through the noise and echo, which just makes them a garbled mess too.

 

[Skimble19]

I saw the new boards for the first time a couple of weeks ago, generally I think they are fine, but the blank panels at the ends look out of place and ugly.

I’ve thought this since they were installed - it sort of gives the impression that it’s just been chucked in with little thought. I’d like to think the blank panels are being left so that the screen can be expanded in the future to cover the width the old screens did, but the cynic in me suspects the space may be lost and end up as advertising boards.

 

[Hadders]

I’ve thought this since they were installed - it sort of gives the impression that it’s just been chucked in with little thought. I’d like to think the blank panels are being left so that the screen can be expanded in the future to cover the width the old screens did, but the cynic in me suspects the space may be lost and end up as advertising boards.

I suspect the blank panels at the end will become advertising screens.

Good that the 3-D diagram ended up going. I wonder if the feedback on here played a part in its rather rapid demise?

 

[BJames]

I suspect the blank panels at the end will become advertising screens.

Good that the 3-D diagram ended up going. I wonder if the feedback on here played a part in its rather rapid demise?

I thought this too. Earlier in the thread we had a preview of the display planned for the board before it was installed so I think at least one person involved with the development will have seen the comments.

For what it's worth, I see what was trying to be done. St Pancras is confusing for occasional/new visitors to the station. But I much prefer the design with the arrows.

 

[edwin_m]

Even without lines on the floor, it would be helpful if the fixed signs pointing to each platform groups were the same colour as used for that area on the screens.

 

[Recessio]

I think lines on the floor would make a big difference too, if they were the same colour/design to match the ones on these new displays. They certainly helped at Victoria (another confusing layout for tourists).

 

[edwin_m]

I think lines on the floor would make a big difference too, if they were the same colour/design to match the ones on these new displays. They certainly helped at Victoria (another confusing layout for tourists).

Problem is they'd just stick some tape on the floor, which would get tatty in no time. They really need inlaying into the surface like the queue lines in the late unlamented 1970s building in front of Kings Cross.

 

[stadler]

I messaged EMR on this regard and they directed me to Network Rail to raise the issue with, as they manage the station. Though it begs the question, how come South Eastern have automated announcements if this is the case?

Out of interest, I know Anne replaced Rachael at Skegness but I haven’t heard her at any other smaller stations? They are still with TTS.

I am certain that EMR are responsible for the CIS on their platforms. Network Rail have confirmed this when i made an FOI to them. EMR and ES and SE and TL are all responsible for the CIS on their own platforms. Network Rail are only responsible for the new CIS screens downstairs. So it sounds like EMR were talking nonsense. They probably just thought that NR manage the CIS because they also manage the station.

The Southeastern platforms have had automated announcements since 2009 on day one of high speed services. They used to have the Thales system with Mark Stutter announcing (and Pauline Cavilla for a short while before switching back) and then in 2012 switched to the current Atos Worldline system. I suppose that Southeastern consider it more important than EMT and EMR do. Also the High Speed One line was a major high profile opening so they probably wanted them for what was such an important new line.

Maybe it is just Skegness then. I was told by someone at EMR that they were replacing Acapela Rachael with Anne at all stations but maybe that has not happened. It is not my local area so i have not checked the stations for a while.

 

[James H]

Hopefully they improve them from the photo. Saying there are no Thameslink departures, when the EMR board shows that they are running every 15 minutes northward can potentially mislead people. The Thameslink board should at least show generic information stating that.

Above message was posted on 18 March. This has still not been remedied:

Picture shows Thameslink departures board at St Pancras today

 

[Benjwri]

Above message was posted on 18 March. This has still not been remedied:

Picture shows Thameslink departures board at St Pancras today

Sure thisly is intentional as the main board is set up telling people to head downstairs to the low level platforms for Thameslink services, however the Thameslink core is closed today. Displaying them on the EMR board is less misleading because it actually tells people which platform to go to for the train.

 

[ModernRailways]

Sure thisly is intentional as the main board is set up telling people to head downstairs to the low level platforms for Thameslink services, however the Thameslink core is closed today. Displaying them on the EMR board is less misleading because it actually tells people which platform to go to for the train.

Anybody going for a Thameslink service northwards should look at the Thameslink board though. They're not going to look at the EMR board. If they're going to separate it out by TOC then it needs to stay as such, Thameslink services appearing under EMR services on the boards makes zero sense.

 

[James H]

It would be better to say "See EMR board for Thameslink trains towards Luton" or similar.

It is incorrect to say there are "no Thameslink departures" from St P.

And today as there were no trains north of Luton, the EMR board was very confusing as ALL trains had "Luton" as their destination - hard to disentangle which were EMR and which were Thameslink

 

[modernrail]

Anybody going for a Thameslink service northwards should look at the Thameslink board though. They're not going to look at the EMR board. If they're going to separate it out by TOC then it needs to stay as such, Thameslink services appearing under EMR services on the boards makes zero sense.

Exactly. It is a Thameslink service not an EMR service.

 

[jon0844]

Anybody going for a Thameslink service northwards should look at the Thameslink board though. They're not going to look at the EMR board. If they're going to separate it out by TOC then it needs to stay as such, Thameslink services appearing under EMR services on the boards makes zero sense.

As a full-matrix colour display, the whole setup can be changed when the core is closed and trains are starting upstairs. As such, they could still keep the Thameslink info on its own section but with the arrows changed and a clear notice that they're using different platforms.

It seems silly to have such flexibility and still work within the confines of older, traditional, displays.

 

[Richardr]

The other thing - it says "currently" which to me implies that there will be trains later today.

In addition to St Albans and Luton trains going from the upper platforms, of course there will normally be the likes of Cambridge and Peterborough trains from Kings Cross on the Great Northern part of Thameslink. It should at least point relevant customers to either the East Midlands board or to Kings Cross, whilst stating there are no through London trains.

 

[James H]

It’s worse than a blank screen as it is actively misleading

 

[Basil Jet]

I notice that the analogue clocks represented on the electronic display have a second hand which now leaps once a second, whereas a few months ago they were definitely gliding smoothly with an update rate of 30 frames per second or more. I wonder what prompted the change?

 

[chris53]

I've just checked and there are no TOC specific wallk up tickets to Luton Airport Parkway, Luton or Bedford, which are the ones that would be most relevant, and hardly anyone will use Advances for those journeys if they even exist. Unless easyJet still sell those on board Thameslink only transfers?

Haven't checked if it is still the case but untill a couple of years ago I used to travel regularly from St Pancras to Luton and generally bought an advance ticket valid on a specific EMR service . It was generally around 3 or 4 quid each way as opposed to a walk up fare of at the time around 17 pounds each way.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I've just checked and there are no TOC specific wallk up tickets to Luton Airport Parkway, Luton or Bedford, which are the ones that would be most relevant, and hardly anyone will use Advances for those journeys if they even exist. Unless easyJet still sell those on board Thameslink only transfers?

Haven't checked if it is still the case but untill a couple of years ago I used to travel regularly from St Pancras to Luton and generally bought an advance ticket valid on a specific EMR service . It was generally around 3 or 4 quid each way as opposed to a walk up fare of at the time around 17 pounds each way.

'I wouldn't use Advances for those journeys' ... so ... "hardly anyone will use Advances for those journeys"

I'd suggest Mr Bletchleyite might have fallen for the false consensus effect!

Tomorrow (Weds 14 Feb) there are lots of journeys from St Pancras to Luton Airport Parkway for which there are Advance tickets for £4.40*.

These £4.40 or £6.10 Advance fares compare favourably to the £11.20 cost of a contactless Off-peak single fare. Whether the saving is worthwhile in exchange for the lack of flexibility is up to the individual(s) travelling.

Of course I wouldn't suggest using an Advance for a journey from an airport after a flight.


(* Looking at through Advances from St Pancras to Luton Airport itself via the DART, most are £4.90 more than the fare to Parkway station - which makes sense as that is the cost of a single on the DART - though oddly a few through Advances are priced at more than that, which I guess is just some unintended odd artifact of the Advance quota system at work. Point being, if going down this route it's best to just buy an Advance from St P. to Parkway and then pay for the DART seperately to ensure you're paying the least!)