Spurious counted places reservations.

[JBuchananGB]

On two of my recent trips involving multiple legs, I have been issued with counted places reservations on connecting services even though the ticket was an Off Peak Return. In these cases there has been a reservable Avanti leg to the journey.
The tickets were booked through the forum web site and fulfilled by ToD, which meant that there were spurious coupons issued.
Specifically Billericay to Southport, counted places on both Greater Anglia and Northern (reservation on Avanti), and Burscough to Lancaster, counted places on Northern (reservation on Avanti).
On both of these excursions, I travelled in accordance with the validity of my ticket on different trains from those for which the reservations had been issued.
Why does the forum ticketing web site generate counted places reservations on connecting services when tickets are valid on any train?

 

[Haywain]

Why does the forum ticketing web site generate counted places reservations on connecting services when tickets are valid on any train?

Because website will generate reservations on reservable services, and counted places make a service reservable.

 

[Adam Williams]

Because website will generate reservations on reservable services, and counted places make a service reservable.

Effectively this, when the customer asks for reservations then it'll be attempted for all reservable services - even those which are only reservable because of Advances they offer with counted places. This is what the accreditation standards make it clear is expected of retailers.

It is possible to check ahead of time what sort of reservation you're likely to get (seat vs counted place) and you could in theory then elect not to try and make reservations when it is pointless for the customer - but there are perverse incentives to maximise the number of bookings you make because checking the sort of seat you'll get back counts as an availability check, and you are charged money for doing "too many" of these in comparison to your bookings (they look at the ratio).

 

[JBuchananGB]

Is it possible to buy online walk up tickets without reservations, even if trains are allegedly reservable? For example could I buy off peak return Southport to Wigan without being issued counted place reservation? After all, I can travel on any off peak train.

 

[Watershed]

Is it possible to buy online walk up tickets without reservations, even if trains are allegedly reservable? For example could I buy off peak return Southport to Wigan without being issued counted place reservation? After all, I can travel on any off peak train.

Yes, in that case you could choose whether or not to make reservations.

The issue for the journeys you mentioned previously is that Avanti and TPE's WCML services are all marked as 'compulsory reservations' in the timetable data, therefore journey planners are only allowed to offer fares for journeys involving those services where reservations are available.

If they are forced to query for/make reservations, most journey planners go ahead and make reservations on all reservable services, even ones where only counted places are available.

 

[Flying Snail]

Effectively this, when the customer asks for reservations then it'll be attempted for all reservable services - even those which are only reservable because of Advances they offer with counted places. This is what the accreditation standards make it clear is expected of retailers.

It is possible to check ahead of time what sort of reservation you're likely to get (seat vs counted place) and you could in theory then elect not to try and make reservations when it is pointless for the customer - but there are perverse incentives to maximise the number of bookings you make because checking the sort of seat you'll get back counts as an availability check, and you are charged money for doing "too many" of these in comparison to your bookings (they look at the ratio).

That is ridiculous, although issuing pointless counted place reservations for free is not nearly as bad as ACP Rail who sell them at £6 a pop to unsuspecting tourists on Interrail/Eurail passes as they are sent to ACP by Eurail.

 

[JBuchananGB]

I understand that because there was a compulsory reservable leg in my quoted trips, the journey planner decided to allocate counted places on the other reservable trains. I appreciate the explanation. Maybe next time I do something like Burscough to Lancaster, where the reservation isn't important, I will try my luck with the TVM and see what that does.